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Edward Bolton/Alfred Edward Bolton Saunders mystery

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  • Edward Bolton/Alfred Edward Bolton Saunders mystery

    I wonder if anyone can find any information regarding this situation. It's rather long winded so apologies in advance for the ramblings. My mother is in possession of the family bible owned by her grandparents Richard (b 1820) and Susannah (nee Warman b 1825) Saunders. In the bible the children are listed as Richard Saunders b. nov 26th 1847, William Hall Saunders b. july 12th 1848?, Hannah Saunders b august 2nd 1850, Margaret Saunders b. march 21st 1852, Edward Saunders b. january 25th 1854 died march 31st 1855, Edward Saunders b. january 7th 1856, Elizabeth Ann Saunders b. july 21st 1858, Ann Susanna Saunders b. sept. 12th 1860, Susannah Saunders b. dec 27th 1865, Mary Brice Saunders b. sept 11th 1872. On the next page is a single entry Alfred Saunders born at Eastney, Portsmouth 1885, just above this entry is written Edward Bolton, as though it was added afterwards. On looking at the various census information we have found some rather ambiguous entries eg 1891 @ 15 Bouverie Road West, Folkestone an Alfred Saunders b. 1862 is listed with no further information regarding place of birth etc. underneath is an entry for Bolton Saunders b 1886 listed as grandson to Susannah Saunders. In the 1901 census Elizabeth Ann Saunders is listed as head of house with Alfred Saunders listed as son b 1886.
    Alfred's birth certificate says the following
    When and where born:
    > 17 November 1885
    > 3 Henderson Rd
    > Eastney
    >Name and surname of father:
    > Edward
    > Bolton
    > Saunders
    >Name and Maiden Surname of mother:
    > Elizabeth
    > SAUNDERS
    > late
    > SIMS
    > formerly
    > SAUNDERS
    >Rank of profession of father:
    > Mechanic on a
    > Coffee Plantation
    > at Madras

    apparently Alfred never knew his father, and on his marriage certificate to FLORENCE MAUD
    >RICHARDSON on 8 June 1921 in Battersea, London, his father's name just had a
    >line through it.

    I found the following information on a query on the internet by a member of Alfred's direct family who are also trying to get to the bottom of this mystery.

    "We believe that he was illigitimate and there never was an 'EDWARD BOLTON
    >SAUNDERS'. We think his mother ELIZABETH ANN was 'in service' somewhere when
    >the 'event' took place and we know she was well looked after the birth. My
    >grandfather owned a 4 storey boarding house in Folkestone when he married and we
    >think the money had come from his mother. Also the SIMS would indicate that
    >she had been married previously and then reverted to her maiden name - "

    We have found an Edward Bolton listed on HMS Asia, and also an Edward Bolton at Royal Artillery Barracks, Shorncliffe, Military In Shorncliffe Camp both on the 1881 census, and i guess both of these are possibilities.

    Any thoughts and ideas on the above gratefully received. Sorry for it being rather long winded for a first request!
    Last edited by LilyB; 08-08-11, 10:33. Reason: Typing error pointed out to me

  • #2
    Welcome to FTF.

    Have you found Elizabeth anywhere, either as Sims or Saunders married or Saunders single? Have you found an y marriage for her to Sims or Saunders?

    Can you give the references for the census entries you have found?

    Margaret

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    • #3
      I haven't found any marriage for Elizabeth and i can't find her on the 1881 census either. The ones i have found so far are Elizabeth 1891 RG12 piece 750 folio 129 page 67, the 1901 census RG13 piece 847 folio 145 page 42 and for Edward Bolton 1881 RG11 piece 1011 folio 102 page 5. Unfortunately at the moment i cannot find the other entry for Edward Bolton on the HMS Asia. My sister found that one and i haven't been able to contact her today to ask where she found it.
      Jeni

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      • #4
        Hi Jeni, I have time today to see if I can help.
        First off, the single entry on the next page, did you mean to write 1785 or is that a typo, only all the rest are 18 something?
        Have you checked all these entries against GRO references?
        Vivienne passed away July 2013

        Comment


        • #5
          Are you aware that there are 9 public member trees on Ancestry with Richard Saunders b 1820 on them?
          Only one of them has Alfred & he is listed as son of Edward Crawford Bolton & Susannah Saunders, name is Alfred Edward Bolton Saunders.
          Parents for Edward Crawford Bolton, Robert Henry Bolton & Catherine.
          Vivienne passed away July 2013

          Comment


          • #6
            That looks like a good lead with Saunders and Bolton in the same family with Edward and Alfred as first names.
            Margaret

            Comment


            • #7
              hi Viv sorry, yes you're right it should be 1885 as per the birth certificate entry. I don't have access to Ancestry and haven't seen the entry that you mentioned, thanks for that, i'll pass that information on to my sister as i'll be away on holiday from tomorrow. I haven't checked anything out with anywhere apart from the census, the family bible and the information from Alfred's direct relation (his granddaughter i believe) I assume that she has seen the birth certificate.

              Comment


              • #8
                Maybe the Grandaughter is the one with the tree on Ancestry, it does go down to living people! I could contact the tree owner if you would like.
                Have a great holiday & we'll catch up when you get back.
                xx

                There is a free site apparently, that I haven't seen but someone on here has mentioned it, that has Ancestry public trees on. I'll find out about it before you get home.
                Last edited by Vivienne; 08-08-11, 08:45.
                Vivienne passed away July 2013

                Comment


                • #9
                  Never assume anyone else has done what you think is necessary they most often don't so you should check stuff yourself even if you are confident of the person.

                  Margaret

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Viv, that would be great if you were able to contact them. I don't think it can be the granddaughter because she is as stumped as we are about the information. Her name is Roz Elliot. We have been in contact with her and it was her that gave us the information regarding the birth certificate. She also said that her mum told her that grandfather (Alfred) had a big secret that he wanted to tell his wife but she kept telling him to shut up so it always remained a mystery. She did tell me that she had found a possible connection with Elizabeth working in service in a house where ambassadors and the like would have visited, so the connection with Edward Crawford Bolton is a distinct possibility there as his son was a very distinguised OBE so i assume Edward was someone of note as well. The information you gave regarding his fathers name is coincidentally the same as his son's name so i think it needs a little more looking in to. A little frustrating that i'm off on holiday just when things are getting interesting!

                    Look forward to catching up with you when i get back.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Margaret, I kind of got that impressions and do try to check as much information as i can myself, unfortunately i do not have the time or the resources to do as much as i'd like just at the moment so it's slow progress. Also add to that the fact that i'm a complete novice at this so am still finding my way around the research side of things. Thanks to all of you for the amazing help you're giving though.
                      Jeni

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My one reservation re this tree is that they don't appear to have backed up their info with certificates but it is worth making contact & at least it will be another living relative for you.
                        Last edited by Vivienne; 08-08-11, 10:55.
                        Vivienne passed away July 2013

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Perhaps you could ask the person who has the certificate to scan it so you can have a look?
                          Margaret

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The free site where you can see Ancestry Public Member Trees is; www.mundia.com
                            Vivienne passed away July 2013

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Surnames of living people in this tree; French x6, Gully x3(owner), Parker x1, Richardson x3, Saunders x9, White x1.
                              Any of these mean anything Jeni?
                              Vivienne passed away July 2013

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                No nothing at all at the moment Viv. I can see i have a lot of work to do when i get back!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  So who was your Mums Mum/Dad descended from?
                                  Vivienne passed away July 2013

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    My mums mum was Mary Brice Saunders and her mum and dad were Richard and Susannah Saunders.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Ok Jeni, I'll see where I can go with that.

                                      The main tree I'm looking at has no spouse or children for Mary so I'll have a look at the other 8! lol
                                      Vivienne passed away July 2013

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        First thing I have found is that Elizabeth Ann Saunders left a Will. She died in 1924 & letters of admin went to Alfred Edward Bolton Saunders, plumber, effects £272.4s.
                                        Pm me your email Jeni & I'll send you the entry.
                                        Vivienne passed away July 2013

                                        Comment

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