Mary Ellen Smith in prison?

[Chobits]

Hi, I am trying to find more details about Mary Ellen SMITH.
She was born in Manchester in about 1865.
Parents are James SMITH and Bridget.

I can find her with her family in 1871 but in 1881 I find the family in Manchester but no Mary.
A search on ancestry gave me the following as a potential and it does seem to be a vaild explaination as the father and birth details match:

1881 Cencus
Name: Mary Ellen SMITH, Age: 16, Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Prisoner Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Gorton, County/Island: Lancashire, Country: England
Street Address: "H M Prison" Hyde Rd Manchester
Occupation: Paper Sorter
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: Her Majestys Prison
Piece: 3912, Folio: 135, Page Number: 26


In 1888 there is a trial and in 1889 there is a sentence for a Mary Ellen SMITH and I believe this is her.
I don't have the full details to confirm this just a name.

I can't find Mary from 1881 onwards as another possibility so can anyone help me with this please?

[margaretmarch]

I take it this is what you found

Mary Ellen Smith
Date of Trial: 31 Dec 1888
Trial Year: 1888
Location of Trial: Lancashire, England
Sentence: Imprisonment

It looks like the term was 12 months with 3 years police supervision afterwards.

It's possible she got married so new name or maybe she committed another crime and was transported to Australia - have you cheked that?
Margaret

[Christine in Herts]

Welcome to FTF, anyway!

I'd be inclined to claim that May Ellen SMITH, but in the knowledge that I might have to prune the resulting branch away at a later date.

I've found that that has been a fruitful approach myself, in the past, but you do need to make sure that you have some kind of annotation to make it clear that there's an element of doubt.

Incidentally, you'll find that a number of people working on genealogy will put surnames in upper-case. I certainly find it helpful for two quite separate reasons:
1] If you're scanning through a post, you can spot quickly if it includes any surnames of especial interest for your own research.
2] It reduces the risk of confusion where there are names which have been used as given names which are usually surnames, or if there are surnames which are usually given names. For example, "David" is commonly a given name, but does exist as a surname; or, in my maternal tree, I have a Henry Pafoot CHRISTMAS, whose middle name is the maiden name of his maternal grandmother. This can be critical if you aren't sure whether names have been listed surname-first or given-name-first.

Christine

[Chobits]

Thanks for the replies.

This has stemmed from a query of my great grandmother Florence SMITH who I believe was born in 1888 in Salford. I have the details to get her birth certificate which I am going to get from Manchester Office very soon hopefully by some way!
Florence was raised by a WIlliam Henry SMITH who is the brother of Mary.

We know that one of William's siblings is the mother or father of Florence but trying to work out which one. Florence also had a sister called Rose born 1901 also adopted by William which is another birth certificate I need to get, so far unsucessful.

As Mary SMITH could have potentially been imprisoned in 1889 then this could be why Florence SMITH was adopted by her uncle. If then released a year later could well have gone on to have another child.

[Chobits]

This is her parents and siblings from cencus records:

1861 Cencus: 4 Claytons Court, All Saints, Northumberland,
James SMITH, Head, ? Draper. Age 30 abt 1831, Ireland
Bridget SMITH, Wife Age 26 abt 1835, Ireland
Thomas SMITH, Son, Age 6 abt 1855, Durham England
William SMITH, Son 4 abt 1857, Newcastle
John SMITH, Son 1 Abt 1860, Newcastle
RG9/3826/82/8

1871 Cencus: 45 Angel Street, Manchester, Lancashire
Bridget SMITH, Married, Head, Housekeeper, Age 35, Born 1826 Ireland.
Thomas SMITH, Son, Age 16 Abt 1855,Newcastle.
William SMITH, Son, Age 14 Abt 1857.Newcastle.
Kathleen SMITH, Daughter,Age 9 Abt 1862 Newcastle.
Mary Ellen SMITH, Daughter, Age 6 Abt 1865, Manchester.
Bridget Ann SMITH, Daughter, Age 4 Abt 1867, Manchester.
RG10/4051/141/13.

1881 Cencus: 45 Angel Street, Manchester, Lancashire
Bridget SMITH, Head, Married, Age 42 abt 1839, Ireland, House Keeper,
Thomas SMITH,Son, Age 21 Abt 1860, Traveller, Bottley Durham England
William SMITH, Son, Age 19 Abt 1862, Market Porter. Newcastle Tyne,
Bridget Ann SMITH, Daughter, Age 13 Abt 1868, Scholar, Manchester

[margaretmarch]

Thanks for the replies.

This has stemmed from a query of my great grandmother Florence SMITH who I believe was born in 1888 in Salford. I have the details to get her birth certificate which I am going to get from Manchester Office very soon hopefully by some way!

Sorry I omitted to say welcome to FTF!

You can order certificates online here https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/Login.asp You will need to create an account and then enter the details of the certificate required. They cost £9.25.

You do need the reference numbers given in the birth index which are the district, volume and page number as well as the year & quarter of registration.

The birth certificate is vital to establish who the parents were.

Margaret

[Janet H.]

Hi Chobits
welcome to the boards
take a look at this site too.
will give you some background on the prison.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_studies/3808/court_and_prison_records/8

[Chobits]

Hi Janet.
Thanks for that. I had a look and it does give quite a bit of info about the prison.

I got this info from the site and lt looks like it might be difficult to see the 1881 record!

Strangeways Prison in Southall Street, Manchester was built to replace New Bailey prison in Salford which closed in June 1868. It acted as the County Gaol for the Hundred of Salford (south-east Lancashire). It was renamed Her Majesty's Prison, Manchester in the 1990s. Manchester Archives holds the following records for this prison:

• Female Registers, 1868-1875; Female Description Books, 1867-1879; Male Registers, 1869-1879 (with gaps); Male and Female Register (Small Debts), Dec 1878-Dec 1881.

We also hold a "Felony Register - Bolton and Salford Sessions & Manchester Assizes (Male) Jan 1863-Dec 1872" (ref: M600/4/1). This is probably for New Bailey Prison and Strangeways Prison.
No other records are known to have survived. A full catalogue for our prison records can be viewed on our on-line catalogue (ref: M600).

[Chobits]

Can anyone help me to find more info about the 1888 sentence. On the mentioned site for the prison it doesn't go up to 1888 for available records so googles and couldn't find any to view for free or payable!

[cpdavis35]

Hi Chobits,

i did a quick google search and saw this.... http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.co...ad.php?t=19553 Some info on Mary Ellen is on page 3 after some pictures of relatives?

[cpdavis35]

Also found this... http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a...-115&cid=-1#-1

scroll down to the line ...Bill of costs of defence of Mary Ellen Smith QSP/4293/57 c1889

These documents are held at: Lancashire Record Office

http://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/default.aspx

According to the website they are closed to October 2011.