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  • Left In Trust

    Hi. Someone who passed away in 1932, London, left in trust, a dowry to female members of the family who married. How can I find out about the trust side of things? Do I need to try and get a copy of the will first?

  • #2
    I guess the trust will have been set up seperately, although would be mentioned in the will. My late M in Law set up a trust for the grandsons, she did so quite some time before she died though, and added to it when she was alive.All the trust agreement did was define her wish that the boys didnt get their mitts on it before the age of 30.
    Jess

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    • #3
      I had a Will (1901) for one of my great great uncles that actually specified the terms of the Trust ie. unmarried daughter to live in the house and on his investments until she dies and then the residue to go to various people and charity organisations. So it would be a good move to get the will and see what's said, if nothing else it will tell you the executors and trustees and if a firm of solicitors they may still have papers. If you wanted these papers they will charge to get them out of archives.
      Margaret

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      • #4
        Were trusts used in the 1800s? Would any of the records survive? How could they be found?

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        • #5
          Lots of wills included trust arrangements that were administered by the executors. I don't think you would necessarily find any separate papers about them, not sure what you want to see.

          Several of the wills I have for deaths in the 1800s were for money/assets to be held in trust and the proceeds to be used for the benefit of whomever was specified. This would have been done until the money ran out or the beneficiary died at which point the residue would go to whoever was named.

          I know my mother had an inheritance in such circumstances in the 1940's but the person who left it died in 1901 leaving his daughter to be kept from the money/assets in trust - she died in 1938 so the residue was then distributed to others.

          Margaret

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          • #6
            I have a (possible) ancestor who seems to come into money. Can't find a relative that it would have come from, and his father-in-law didn't leave a will.

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            • #7
              Photofamily

              My great grandfather and his brothers, all born in the 1860s into desperate poverty, dragged themselves up by their bootlaces and by the tuen of the century were comfortably off and living middle class lives. All this was done by hard work - no one left them any money. The Victorian era was a time of enormous opportunity for anyone prepared to work hard. Maybe your relative was the same?

              OC

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              • #8
                Thanks Jess and Margaretmarch. I've not applied for a UK will before, and I know there's a lot of info on it. What's the best wayto go about it..can anything be done on line?

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                • #9
                  OC - The Mitchells are a puzzle. I despair that I will ever find enough clues to find the proof of a link.
                  1841 - warehouseman
                  1851 - warehouseman
                  1856 - contractor (his marriage)
                  1861 - no occupation (his wife: nurse; there are children in the house that are "nurse children")
                  1871 - annuitant
                  When his children are baptized, his occupation is labourer (except once, when he was "tin plate worker")
                  1855 - contractor (son's marriage)
                  1874 - gentleman (daughter's marriage)
                  1875 - gentleman (daughter's marriage)

                  So, I suppose he could have earned it all?

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                  • #10
                    As to obtaining wills - aren't all wills indexed in the PCC on ancestry?

                    Oh - and this Mitchell didn't leave a will, either. His wife survived him by about 10 years. She didn't either.

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                    • #11
                      Naomiatt/ Photofamily

                      Ancestry have this database "England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941" which should include the one in 1932, you are looking for.

                      Once you find which Probate Office and the date you can then apply for a copy of the will. There is no online application process at the moment so you have to write with a cheque for £6 to a Probate Office.

                      I use my local one in Leicester and they are very helpful but the main place to write to is York - look here http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/c...registries.htm for addresses.
                      Margaret
                      Last edited by margaretmarch; 02-08-11, 13:43.

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                      • #12
                        Thank you Margaret...done

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                        • #13
                          Good luck. I hope the will shows what you want to know.
                          Margaret

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                          • #14
                            Hi, have the will, and it mentions trust, but only applicable to his wife,children and his business. Hmmmm......

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                            • #15
                              The will should mention who the executors were to be and who the trustees were to be.
                              If the trustees thought the management of the trust was beyond them they could authorise someone else to manage the trust.

                              For example my grandfather left assets in trust to his daughters and his first born grandson (this would have been for his son but he was killed in the 2nd World War).
                              The terms of the trust designate who inherits in event of the death of another.
                              This trust is managed by the family solicitors, but the terms were laid out in my grandfather’s will.
                              Cheers
                              Guy
                              Guy passed away October 2022

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                              • #16
                                Photofamily

                                Sorry, I've only just seen your post #9.

                                Are you assuming that he was wealthy because he was described as a gentleman? "Gentleman" on the census was often a tongue in cheek way of describing someone who was unemployed - gentleman merely meant they did not work for a living. The same applies to marriage certificates, perhaps even more so, in my experience the occupation of fathers is always bigged up on a marriage cert - you wouldn't want it down for all time that your father was unemployed.

                                You should be able to tell roughly what his financial circumstances might have been by looking at where he was living on the census and what kind of things his neighbours were doing. If his neighbours were stockbrokers snd the like with umpteen servants then he probably WAS wealthy. If his neighbours were postmen and washerwomen then he was probably simply unemployed.

                                OC

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks, OC - that's very useful information. Would the same be true for the terms "annuitant" & "contractor"?

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                                  • #18
                                    In an earlier post you mentioned the following (order changed)
                                    Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                                    1841 - warehouseman
                                    1851 - warehouseman
                                    1855 - contractor (son's marriage)
                                    1856 - contractor (his marriage)
                                    1861 - no occupation (his wife: nurse; there are children in the house that are "nurse children")
                                    1871 - annuitant
                                    When his children are baptized, his occupation is labourer (except once, when he was "tin plate worker")
                                    1874 - gentleman (daughter's marriage)
                                    1875 - gentleman (daughter's marriage)
                                    This seems to show that until sometime between 1851 and 1855 he was a warehouseman.
                                    He then took the plunge and worked for himself as a labourer contracting work.
                                    His wife seems to have found employment either as a wet nurse or simply looking after infants and possibly received an annuity (an annual payment) from one of the families whose children she nursed.
                                    This enabled them to take a step up the social scale and allowed him to claim to be a gentleman.
                                    Cheers
                                    Guy
                                    Guy passed away October 2022

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                                    • #19
                                      Thanks, Guy. It seems like it could be either of those possibilities - struggling for money, or surviving on an annuity or other trickle of money. Anna survives to the 1881 census, but has nothing listed in the occupation column.

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                                      • #20
                                        Thanks Guy, I've a feeling it might be one of the brother's that I should be looking at then. A dowry trust was set up for females in the family and I though it may show up on this particular will but it hasn't.

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