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  • Under age on marriage

    I have a marriage entry on an English parish register and the groom is described as "under age".
    The bride is "of age".
    The date is 1840 and I think the bride would have been 19 years old and the groom perhaps about a year younger.
    I would be grateful if anyone knows what the age limits were at that time for a marriage.
    Thanks very much.
    herky
    Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

  • #2
    Both bride and groom could marry without parental permission once they were 21; younger if they were widowed.
    Judith passed away in October 2018

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Judith - I wonder if she lied about her age or just didn't know her proper age.
      herky
      Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

      Comment


      • #4
        Or was she marrying against her parents' wishes? I presume you have the marriage certificate showing both parents, where they married and the witnesses? If she is baptised around 1821ish then you should be able to track her baptism and therefore her parent/s through the parish registers.

        Janet
        Last edited by Janet; 01-07-11, 10:00.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Janet

          This one is a bit complicated.
          She bride (Ann) lists her father as George but with the last name as her mother's maiden name.
          Her mother(Sarah) must have had the child before she married another man. By the date of Ann's marriage the mum's husband, Ann's stepfather, was dead.
          I have the Sarah and stepfather's marriage entry on the parish register and the mother's maiden name is the same as her daughter's. But it is possible that she had had a previous marriage to Ann's father.
          However the birth IGI entry (extracted) gives Ann's parentage only as Sarah, which to me suggesst that there was no father on the scene.

          Phew - I hope you understood all my ramblings.
          herky
          Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

          Comment


          • #6
            Herky

            Is there an actual BIRTH date on the baptism record? Baptism didn't always take place immediately after birth (although it nearly always did if the child was illegitimate and no father's name on baptism means the child was illegitimate).

            OC

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            • #7
              Hi OC,


              The only record I have for Ann's birth/bapt is an IGI (ext)which only shows the Bapt date and her mother Sarah as the parent. This date matches her age over the years on census and is only one year out on her death cert, which I do have.

              I know that the father can't be Sarah's husband (Robert) as he was in the army for 20 years and was not around plus I have a copy of a 1833 newspaper where Ann (in a court case) is listed as Robert's wife's daughter and not his daughter.
              Isn't life complicated???!!!
              PS - popping out for an hour or so but will check back later - thanks to all for suggestions and help
              Last edited by herky; 01-07-11, 11:48.
              herky
              Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

              Comment


              • #8
                We'll never know the facts but a likely scenario is that, being illegitimate she made up a father's name for respectability, and claimed to be "of age" so that no one needed to ask her fictional parent for consent (she would not have needed to give proof of age)
                Judith passed away in October 2018

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have a few instances like this in my tree & in nearly all of them the fictional father's name given for the marriage is the maternal grandfather's name - probably easier that way as there was someone of that name, it's not too far from the truth & is hopefully easier to remember if anyone asks about it afterwards! Of course it wouldn't work if the family were stalwarts of the church or well-known to the minister. Anyway, it may be worth checking Sarah's father's name to see if that is what has happened here. Good luck!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think you are all correct - she made up a name for respectability etc.
                    I don't know the maternal grandfather yet - but perhaps that will turn out to be the case.
                    Anyway - it is not crucial as she is only half mine as her mother was my 3 x g grandparent.
                    I have still to find out the parentage of my 3 x great grandmother and that is my next aim - perhaps her father will turn out to be a
                    George!
                    Many thanks all.
                    herky
                    Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In the Seamer bp register, Richard Oman was baptised in Nov 1810 as son of Mary. (No father's name, no comment from the vicar.)
                      I later discovered that it was a posthumous birth - Mary had married Richard Oman sen in Mar 1810. Richard died shortly afterwards and Mary probably returned to the parish of her parents for her confinement. She married for a second time in Nov 1812, recorded as a widow.

                      Jay
                      Janet in Yorkshire



                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oh, that is sad.
                        Seems strange that the father/husband was not recorded.
                        I hope her second marriage was long and happy.
                        herky
                        Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I do think you need to track down her baptism in the actual parish registers, not through the IGI, to be able to get anywhere near the truth here. There are all sorts of possibilities that people have put forward and anyone of them could be correct, but a peep at the registers themselves will either give both parents or just mother's name and illegitimate or other words meaning the same thing by the side of the name, or it may actually give you the father's name, if the churchwardens were determined enough to get the name out of the mother so as to be able to charge him with upkeep of the child and not be a burden to the parish. You never know there may be a bastardy bond worth looking at, but this would have to be done through the CRO. If not convenient to go to CRO you could ask them to do a search for you. You have approximate date so it would not be much searching although CRO would probably charge you for the search but then you would have certainty and not probability.

                          PS My great by 2 grandmother had an illegitimate child in 1812 and there was a bastardy bond written for the hapless father, demanding money during and after confinement as well as upkeep of the child. Makes fasinating reading. I also had a Great Great Aunt who had an illegitimate child in 1857 with no father named on the birth certificate but a peep at the actual birth registers gave me the father's name. You will not find this information on the IGI.

                          Janet
                          Last edited by Janet; 01-07-11, 16:04.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've got a London baptism with an exactly opposite scenario. Child born in June 1905. Father dies 13 September (from National Probate Calendar). Child baptised 24 September, mother and father named without comment, but the address given is in the City of London (probably the bank where he worked), not Streatham where the baptism took place. Mother and child emigrated a few months later and the child went on to become a leading light of Melbourne society.
                            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                            • #15
                              Thanks to all again for your comments.
                              I will make a point of getting the Baptism record for Ann and hopefully that will shed some light.
                              I also do make a point of viewing records for my research - this branch, which is in England, I have just recently started on so it is early days.
                              I just wish she had died in Scotland (where her 1/2 siblings and my direct line died) and then the Scottish death cert would have had more information.

                              But then again - I have seen a lot off false info on death certs too, her half sister, my 2 x great grand mum has the totally wrong parents on her death cert and I just know I have the correct person - what fun this family history detective work is and very frustrating!:(
                              herky
                              Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Small correction - look for a bastardy ORDER not a Bastardy bond - bonds were for the rich and were not very common at all. You couldn't bond a man who had no money!

                                OC

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                                • #17
                                  My apologies, yes it should be Bastardy Order, at least all the references in the document refer to the order.

                                  Janet

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