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Stillborn birth, a delicate question

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  • Stillborn birth, a delicate question

    I dont really know how to put this so I am sorry if I offend any one.

    Does anyone know how still born children were buried or cremated in the 1960's?

    I am asking for a friend who is desperate to know what happened to her daughter, she has a death certificate for her, no name just female born in hospital.

    Thank you.

  • #2
    My mother had a stillborn child in hospital in 1953. The custom in that hospital was to cremate stillborn babies in the hospital incinerator.

    Because of certain rumours going round the hospital, my mother insisted that my father arrange a "proper" burial with an outside undertaker.This was done and I believe the custom was to bury the stillborn child with a deceased adult.

    My mother never knew where my brother was buried and I have no hope of finding out now.

    EDIT - The best place to start is with the hospital Social worker or Bereavement Officer, who may know what the procedure was in those days at that hospital.

    OC

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    • #3
      There's an interesting newspaper article here which may help.

      Beneath a heavy Manchester sky, the first buds of spring are appearing as Marjorie and Alex Wood follow a track through the long grass, with graves at either side.
      Jackie

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you kindly both. I suspected that hospital cremation was possible but wanted to check out all options.

        Comment


        • #5
          Jackie

          thanks for that - my stillborn brother was born in a Manchester hospital.

          OC

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          • #6
            You're welcome OC. Hopefully you'll be able to find out some more information.
            Jackie

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            • #7
              Some stillborn children were certainly buried, and you sometimes find references to their burial in parish or council cemetery burial registers.

              Comment


              • #8
                I would agree - when checking my grandparents burial records at the local archive I found 2 stillborn children in with them - one a son and one a grandson.
                It is comforting to think of the wee one tucked in with the grandparents. The son, of course was buried first so would have been on his own so they must have bought the lair for him and the records do match up to this. There is a 3rd stillborn child that I have not found (same family group) so I must find him.
                I do wonder if some children whose parents couldn't afford to buy a lair were just buried when the next funeral happened and if it was even recorded.
                This then would be difficult to find out more about. My relatives were earlier though than yours Ellen - the1890's and the 1920's. Perhaps the 60's records were more accurate.
                A sad time for the families.
                herky
                Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

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                • #9
                  Thank you for all replies. I will let her know what you have all said, I do hope she finds a burial.

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                  • #10
                    Don't just assume that stillbirths were only recorded since the 1926 Act.
                    Parish burial registers have recorded the burials of stillborn infants since the mid 17th century.

                    This can sometimes explain gaps in the sequence of births in a family.
                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Guy View Post
                      Parish burial registers have recorded the burials of stillborn infants since the mid 17th century.
                      I've viewed numerous parish registers, and only seen very occasional references to stillbirths. They were certainly recorded sometimes, but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

                      It's much more common in the council cemetery registers I've viewed.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by herky View Post
                        I do wonder if some children whose parents couldn't afford to buy a lair were just buried when the next funeral happened and if it was even recorded.
                        That sounds really strange to an English ear, herky. Is "lair" a Scottish word for a burial plot?
                        Last edited by Mary from Italy; 26-06-11, 19:29.

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                        • #13
                          Yes, lair is the Scottish word for a grave or burial plot.

                          I have seen reference to stillbirths in early registers - I was very shocked the first time I saw it because it says "Abortive child" but I realised later that it was just how it was described in that particular parish (Blackburn Cathedral, Manchester Cathedral). Not seen 1837 onwards.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            Hi Mary,
                            Yes, as OC says, it is a Scots word for burial plot.
                            Funny how we have so many language differences - I am usually aware of them but didn't realise that Lair was not used south of the border.
                            herky
                            Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No, it sounds weird because it means an animal's den, like a fox's lair.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Oh yes - I didn't think of that - that does make it weird!
                                herky
                                Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It comes from the Old English Leger through the Middle English Leir a place to lie or rest.
                                  Cheers
                                  Guy
                                  Guy passed away October 2022

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks Guy - so not necessarily a Scots word after all.
                                    herky
                                    Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      have you had a look at the section on stillbirths in our reference library?



                                      it might help.
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Unfortunately the section on stillbirths in the forum reference library is not accurate and gives misleading information.

                                        First obtaining stillbirth certificates.
                                        Though it is correct the standard procedure is to supply stillbirth certificates to parents or if they are deceased siblings of the stillborn the legal position is that any person may apply for a stillbirth certificate.

                                        The Registrar General has then (if the applicant is not the mother or father or sibling (under certain circumstances)) whether to provide that certificate or not.
                                        There is no blanket provision for such requests to be rejected each has to be judged on its own merit.

                                        The 1953 Act puts it this way
                                        “30.- (3) The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply to certified copies of entries in registers of still-births, but the Registrar General may, if he sees fit in any particular case and on payment of as aforesaid of the appropriate fee aforesaid, cause a search to be made for, and allow any person to have a certified copy of any entry in any such certified copies or in any filled register of still-births which has been forwarded to him.”

                                        Second it is wrong to state that “as before the 1874 Act of Registration of Births and Deaths, there were no regulations of any kind regarding stillborn children.”
                                        Burials of still-born infants have had to be registered since the regulations to keep parish registers were conceived.
                                        The original order by Thomas Cromwell in 1538 states-
                                        “Item that yow and eny (every) pson (parson) vicare or curate this dioc (diocese) shall for euery churche kepe one boke or reistre wherin ye shall write the day and yere of every weddyng christenyng and buryeng made wtin (within) yor pishe for yowr tyme, and so euy man succedyng yow lykewise. And shall there inserte euy psons (persons) name that shalbe so weddid christened or buried, And for the sauff keping of the same boke the pishe shalbe boude (bound) to puide (provide) of there comen charges one sure coffer with twoo lockes and keys wherof the one to remain wt (with) you, and thother with the saide wardons, wherein the saide boke shalbe laide vpp. Whiche boke ye shall every sonday take furthe and in the psence (presence) of the said wardens or one of them write and recorde in the same all the weddinges christenynges and buryenges made the hole weke before. And that done to lay vpp the boke in the said coffer as afore And for euy tyme that the same shalbe omytted the partie that shalbe in the faulte therof shall forfett to the said churche IIIs IIIId to be emploied on the repation (reparation) of the same churche.”

                                        There is no exemption made for burials of stillborn. If they were buried they had to be registered.
                                        Further the regulations embodied in the 70th. Canon in 1603. state
                                        “And henceforth upon every Sabbath Day immediately after Morning or Evening Prayer the Minister and Churchwardens shall take the said Parchment Book out of the said Coffer, and the Minister in the presence of the Churchwardens shall write and record in the said Book the names of all persons christened together with the names and surnames of their parents, and also the names of all Persons married and buried in that Parish, in the week before, and the day and year of every such Christening, Marriage and Burial.”

                                        The 1695 Act to raise money for the war against France states
                                        “That from and after the first Day of May, in the Year of our Lord, One thousand Six hundred ninety and five, for and during the Term of Five Years, to Commence and be Accounted from the said first day of May and no longer, there shall be Raised, Levied and Paid to his Majesty, his heirs and Successors (over and above all other Duties whatsoever) for and upon the Burial of all Persons, who shall be Buried within the said Term of five Years, at any Place Within the Kingdom of England, Dominion of Wales and Town of Berwick upon Tweed, the several and respective Duties and Sums of Money herein after mentioned (that is to say ; ) For, and upon the Burial of every Person the Sum of four Shillings ;…”

                                        Again no exemption for registering the burials of the stillborn.

                                        Parish registers up and down the country contain many entries of the burials of stillborn infants.
                                        Cheers
                                        Guy
                                        Guy passed away October 2022

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