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Turner family puzzle

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  • Turner family puzzle

    Please can someone have a look and see if they can help me link this grandson to the family.

    I have William Turner b c1817, Dudley, Worcestershire married to Mary Batham b c1821 Dudley Worcestershire. William’s father is John Turner, a farmer.

    In 1871 William and his family are in Rowley Regis, Staffordshire within the household is a Grandson, Clemens (Clement) Turner bc 1868 Rowley Regis.

    I have sent for the birth certificate which I thought to be the most likely for Clement Jun Q 1868 Dudley. Details are 20 March 1868, Clement Alfred Turner, Father Joseph Turner, Mother Mary Ann Turner formerly Cook. Fathers occupation “pudler”, residence Tibbetts Green, Rowley Regis.

    A fellow researcher notes that Joseph’s parents are John Turner and Sarah Pitt and this seems likely from 1841 Census. I cannot find any evidence to link William Turner b c1817 and Joseph Turner b c 1826 Bilston, Staffordshire and would really appreciate some help.

    Many Thanks
    Helen in Glos

  • #2
    Is it also your Clement who appears with his own family (sans father) RG10 piece 2995 folio 24 page 41 & 42 ?
    I can't (easily) see any other likely birth registrations with the right sort of date/place combination.

    The 1871 image is pretty definitely Clement not Clemens.

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Helen,
      I am not sure where you get the Joseph Turner b 1826 Bilston from and why you are trying to link him to William Turner. Are you linking Joseph and William as brothers with John as their father?
      Surely Clement's father Joseph must be the SON of William Turner b 1817?? and not his brother.
      There is a Joseph Turner age 3 as grandson to a John and Maria Turner on 1851 census for Sedgley. However there are a lot of Joseph Turners around Dudley area of that age.
      HO107; Piece: 2030; Folio: 257; Page: 9
      Last edited by Katarzyna; 26-05-11, 21:13.
      Kat

      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

      Comment


      • #4
        I reckon I have traced the "other" Clement, and his immediate family from 1841 to 1911, and his parents are Joseph, puddler, and Mary A, b Paris.

        1841 HO107/1196 book 9 folio19 page 30 Prospect Row, Dudley
        1851 HO107/2019 fo 567 page 23 17, Cannon Street, Wolverhampton (Mary Ann is the b-in-France daughter of Joseph & Caroline COOK)
        1861 RG09/2040 fo41 p32 Tibbetts Gardens, Rowley Regis
        1871 RG10/2995 fo 24 p 42 Tibbett's Garden, Rowley Regis
        1881 RG11/3402 fo 41 page 14 62, Grocers Shop, Grayling Street, Litchurch
        1891 RG12/2734 fo12 p18 62, Grayling Street, Litchurch, Derby
        1895q2 M Derby: TURNER, Clement Alfred & FEARN, Ida Louisa V
        1901 RG13/3219 fo 46 p 38 62, Grayling St, Derby
        1911 RG14/19282 RG78/1152A RD407 SD3 ED18 SN44 11 Cromer St, Leicester

        On that basis, it looks as if he's been recorded twice in 1871 - if you have the correct birth cert.

        Christine
        Last edited by Christine in Herts; 26-05-11, 19:26.
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          I've had another think about this.

          William, coal miner, grandfather of Clement, 3, was b 1813-4 Dudley.

          The Joseph who married Mary Ann, b France, and father of the Clement whose birth cert you appear to have, was b 1824-5 Bilston. He's seriously unlikely to be s/o William, b 1813-4 Dudley.

          That suggests that your Clement wasn't registered - or the registration didn't reach the GRO, anyway.

          Of course - he could be Martha's child?

          Christine
          Last edited by Christine in Herts; 26-05-11, 19:24.
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

          Comment


          • #6
            That's what I have been wondering Christine. If we are eliminating Joseph and Mary Ann as the parents then it could be Ann, Mary or Martha - daughters of William and Mary. Rose hannah would only have been 12. Most likely Martha as she was with Clement on the 1871 census.
            Kat

            My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

            Comment


            • #7
              Looks like Martha married James Preece Dec 1876 Dudley 6c 253
              1881 census

              RG11; Piece: 2859; Folio: 108; Page: 48


              Has Sons George CLEMENT 3 and Walter Harry 1 (Clarent on record but Clement on Image)

              Perhaps named after Clement b 1868?
              Last edited by Katarzyna; 26-05-11, 20:22.
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

              Comment


              • #8
                I saw that family, and wondered, too. That marriage is on http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk
                It was at Dudley Register Office.

                Christine
                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                Comment


                • #9
                  PREECE George Clement Dudley 6c2 Mar 1878 Dudley

                  I cannot find a birth or a death for Clement Turner b 1868 ?
                  Kat

                  My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you all. Firstly, Christine the Clement who appears with his own family in 1871 RG10/2995 Folio 24 P41/2 is I think certainly the one for whom I have the birth certificate, correct address etc. His father Joseph is a boarder in Litchurch, Derbyshire RG10; Piece: 3576; Folio: 47; Page: 42; GSU roll: 839771. Where the rest of the family appear on later census.

                    I have gone down the Joseph/Mary route soley because they were the parents on what I thought to be the most likely birth cert but agree perhaps Clement, grandson of William b1813 was not registered.

                    The mystery remains though as if Clement with "my" Turner family in 1871 is not a double entry and a person in his own right, why can't I find any further trace of him?
                    Helen in Glos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The mystery remains though as if Clement with "my" Turner family in 1871 is not a double entry and a person in his own right, why can't I find any further trace of him?
                      I'd have thought there were some possibilities, (though nothing definitive) of which these are a few...
                      1] he died, but we haven't spotted the death registration (perhaps under the name PREECE??)
                      2] he was adopted (an informal arrangement, in those days) and didn't keep his original name
                      3] he's there but mistranscribed at some stage of the recording process

                      Christine
                      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you Christine, I will keep an eye out for him in a different guise.
                        Helen in Glos

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