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Children born out of wedlock registration ?

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  • Children born out of wedlock registration ?

    I have a woman Ada Allmarrie Oxley ,having two Children after her Husband Edmund Ivy dies in 1892 and before she remarries in 1899.

    Arthur Ivy born abt 1897 Cowbridge Lane Barking Essex
    Elizabeth Jane Ivy born abt 1896 same address.

    Question is ??
    They are both on the 1901 Census with her new Husband George Spelman ,and described as Stepchildren both having her First Husbands surname Ivy ???
    Cannot find a Birth Reg for either of them.

    Arthur died in 1907 and its registered under the name Arthur Ivy.

    Would it be more than likely the Births weren't registered????

    Thanks

  • #2
    Very possible.

    I have heard of out-of-wedlock children not being registered.

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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    • #3
      thanks Christine I guessed as much but was hoping .

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      • #4
        They could have been registered in their father's name, even if the parents weren't married. I have two children born when their parents were living as man and wife (I suspect that they couldn't marry as the man was already wed to someone else) and who were registered with the father's surname. However, when the parents later split up they and their mother went by the mother's maiden name. She later married someone else.

        Jane

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        • #5
          thanks Jane ,dont know how she thought she would get away with using her dead husband surname for the children.?

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          • #6
            Hello Val,
            I think it very likely that they are the same children. I would think that in order to keep respect in the family that they just used Mr. Ivy's surname.
            Have you looked for the births under both Oxley and Ivy? A silly comment but I myself was known by various surnames when a child as I moved from foster home to foster home. I hasten to add that it was not in the same time warp.
            Margaret N
            DOGS HAVE OWNERS ~ CATS HAVE STAFF

            Researching:- WILBURN from Yorkshire/Kings Lynn, London. NEWMAN from Dover/Reading. DOUGHTY from Portsmouth. ROGERS from Bethnal Green. Rumbelow from Norfolk

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            • #7
              hi Margaret yes looked under all possibilities thanks, funny thing is according to a contact they were born at the same address she lived at with her first Husband ( dont know how she knows this ) so the Neighbours would have known they weren't his? think she would have at least moved first ??? lol.

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              • #8
                My gg mother x2 had 3 children with her husband who died. Then had a further 2 and gave them her dead husband's name. quite probably to remain outwardly respectable. It's quite likely the two latter children may have had different fathers, as I have not found any further marriage for her. Though how she coped with 5 children on her own is anyones guess.
                Jen
                Avatar: One of my paintings.

                Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

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                • #9
                  Thanks Jen ,you would have thought the last thing they would want is more children to support by themselves?

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                  • #10
                    Don't know if this helps Val but I have an Elizabeth Shorrock in my tree born to Margaret Shorrock living with Robert Livesey. They married shortly after her birth. Through the census returns her surname alternates from Livesey to Shorrock, she herself never married, reg at birth was Shorrock reg at death was Livesey.
                    I suppose it's, as mentioned, the respect thing, to register under deceased husband's name, which is her name anyway until remarriage.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Audrey think I shall have to leave this lot for now and maybe come back to them another time .

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                      • #12
                        As wayward as she may have been though, you have to admire someone widowed so young (aged 24) with 3 children under 3, who went on to have a futher 2. She never lost or was separated from any of them and they all grew up to adulthood. Some feat in such hard times, and alone in the world.
                        Jen
                        Avatar: One of my paintings.

                        Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

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                        • #13
                          But what name should she have registered the children under? Ivy was HER surname when the children were born. It seems quite likely that there was no father's name on the birth certs, so only her surname would appear on the certificate anyway.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            I agree with OC that they should have been registered with the surname Ivy as that was their mother's name at the time of their births, which brings us back to the question as to why can't we find their registrations. I think it unlikely that the births wouldn't have been registered in the late 1890s but of course it is possible that they weren't.

                            Jane

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                            • #15
                              My Grandmother had two children after her husband was killed in WWI. Both had his surname on the birth certificate, although no father's name was listed. Neighbours would have known as they were born 3 and 4 years after his death! I do actually know the father as it was written in a letter.
                              Wendy



                              PLEASE SCAN AT 300-600 DPI FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES. THANK YOU!

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                              • #16
                                Going in a slightly different direction......I have an IVY in my tree (first name) who more often than not is transcribed as JOY. The two names are almost indistinguishable in copperplate writing.

                                OC

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                                • #17
                                  I have an instance where the widow gave birth three years after the husband's death.The child was baptised naming him as the father.I do not have birth cert. She later married using her maiden name and describing herself as a spinster.The child not found with her on census records.
                                  F

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                                  • #18
                                    When a married woman registers a baby its assumed her husband is the father. Unless the mother volunteers the information that he isn't, or that he is dead, I guess he'd be recorded as the father. Neighbours aren't going to know what is on the birth cert are they?
                                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                                    • #19
                                      thanks all, OC my Ivy's were often mistranscribed as Joy too , when I first started took me ages to find my Great Grandfather.

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                                      • #20
                                        Nell

                                        But as we haven't found the birth regs, we don't know whose name the children were registered in, it could have been anyone's, nor who their father was supposed to have been. We only know they appear as Ivy on the census return which doesn't mean much!

                                        OC

                                        OC

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