any information about the bride, Florence Louisa Hale?, please

[Mike Fisher]

I have the following marriage from the LMA

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_199441-00119&fn=Hubert+King&ln=Gale&st=d&ssrc=&pid=4727332

m.20May1911 in St Marks,Islington,LDN
Hubert King Gale 29 ba compositor 19 Bedford Terrace Charles Samuel Gale commercial traveller

Florence Louisa Smith 24 widow 19 Bedford Terrace Frank Arnold Hale master baker (deceased)

wit:- Winnifred Adelaide Matti Davidson , George King Gale

I have her in the 1911 census
19 Bedford Terrace, Finsbury Park N,Islington,LDN head 24 widow tailoress Gloucester,GLS

I can find nothing suitable for her before this.

[Night Owl]

I don't have access to 1911 but I presume the reference to Gloucester is her birthplace. If so this could be her birth (note the different spelling)

Q/E June 1888 HAILE Florence Louisa Gloucester

and a possible first marriage

Q/E Dec 1906 HAILE Florence Louisa Edmonton
poss groom - SMITH Oswald Humphrey

[Mary from Italy]

Yes, sorry, I just noticed she was born in Gloucs, and deleted.

[Night Owl]

Death for Oswald Humphrey Smith Q/E Dec 1908 Islington aged 25

[Breckland Jane]

In 1901 she is a servant in the household of Francis Newman at 388 City Road, St Luke, London.

RG13 Piece:257 Folio:120 Page:7

Still looking for her in 1891.

Jane

[Breckland Jane]

Think I might have found her is 1891.

The head of household is Ann Strong, a widow. Underneath her is Mary Ann Hail, her daughter, also a widow. All the children underneath her have been transcribed as Strong rather than Hail, they all have dittos. Anyway one of them is Florence Louise, age one year out compared with 1901 and 1911.

RG12 Piece:39 Folio:104 Page:29

[Mike Fisher]

Wow this is coming together now!!!

My father-in-law is Alan King Thompson son of John Alan Thompson, but he had no contact with his paternal grandparents. In the 90's we found out that John Alan Thompson's surname was really Gale. We found that he was really Alan King Gale and we managed to contact Gale cousins after a century of family rift !!!

Hubert King Gale was Alan King Gale's brother and the cousins told us he married a young widow and had children named Oswald,Alec? and Laurie. The only children of the marriage I have been able to find are Charles S(amuel) Gale and Hubert George Gale.

So are the others out there with the surname Smith ?

[Breckland Jane]

Might have to scrap my findings for 1891 as this family in 1881 have a father William, so doesn't match up with Florence's father's details on her marriage!

Jane

[Mike Fisher]

Just found in LMA

St Marks Marylebone 13 Oct 1904 Lewis Eugene Haile mother Florence Haile of 2 C Hospital

[Mike Fisher]

thanks for you help , I now have her in the 1891 and 1901 census living in London and her birth Q2 1888 in Gloucester

[Breckland Jane]

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, where was she in 1891? Was she with her father? I couldn't find him anywhere and I hate loose ends - even if they're not my own!

Jane

[Christine in Herts]

You may wish to bookmark this site: http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd

If the HAILE birth is relevant, there is a record there for that birth with MMN = STRONG. And, yes, the parents' (1866) marriage is William HALE & Mary Ann STRONG.
So presumably not.

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

Frank Arnold HALE is a very specific name - and coupled with "master baker", is even more so.

Why is it so hard to find a likely pre May 1911 death for him? or an appearance on the censuses?

All I can see so far is a Frank Arnold HILL d 1884 (age 0 - so definitely wrong) in Yorkshire, and a Francis Arnold HALL d 1894 (age 46) in Dorset. there are some other infant deaths, but nothing to tie in as far as I can see.

Christine

[maudarby]

Hi
I totally agree with Christine, it's a very specific name & I can't find anyone with that name either in the census or in the death indexes. I wonder who she named as her father when she married Oswald Humphrey Smith. Unfortunately it's not in the LMA records on Ancestry.
Moggie

[Christine in Herts]

I actually had a look fo a death a bit after the marriage year (just in case "deceased" was a premature description†), but didn't spot any likely candidates there, either.

†If you think that would be weird...
[1] My parents' early 1940s marriage cert records my paternal grandfather as deceased, but he died in 1967.
[2] My maternal grandparents record the bride's father as deceased, but he didn't die for another 16 months..

Christine

[Mike Fisher]

Unless I purchase her marriage certificate to Oswald Smith I don't think I can be sure of anything and then ? As this is the first marriage of the wife of a distant cousin I do not feel justified in spending £9.25.

With the surname Smith in London I don't think I can find any children of the union.

I made a mistake in saying I had he in the 1891 census, just the 1901 and 1911

Thanks for all your inputs

Still wonder how Lewis Eugene Haile got his name and what happened to him ?