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RobertJameson1864

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  • RobertJameson1864

    Does anyone know this ancestry member? Are you perhaps "Robert"? Please read all the info I've gathered so far and if you can help to put me in touch with this person who is the owner of the Jameson/Jamieson/Baker/Holmes & Murray Family Trees, I'd be delighted. Thanks for your time.

    I'm desperately trying to contact this person to help me with siblings of my 3xGGF James Murray.

    In the 1851 census I have Joseph and Mary living in Holmegate Row, Claylane, Clay Cross, Derbyshire with 2 children Hannah and Thomas b.c. 1847 and 1850 both in Cromford. Joseph is correctly from Nantwich, Cheshire. In 1861 it looks Like Mary has died and Joseph is married again to yet another widow called Hannah Jordan. Hannah's 6 surviving children by her first marriage are with them as is Thomas, again correct birthplace of Cromford. The couple and Thomas have been entered as Morris and not Murray (this has happened to me once before in 1851 with my own 3xGGF who was Joseph's brother). Hannah's children are incorrectly given as Jording and are referred to as sons and daughters in law of Joseph. I have read somewhere that step children are sometimes referred to in this way on censuses. I don't know where Joseph's own daughter Hannah is in 1861, maybe she's married or dead.

    In 1851 Hannah and her first husband James Jordan were living in Bailey Hill, Gloucestershire. The children are the same ones living with the above mentioned Joseph Morris apart from one older one fled the coop and the youngest who was not born by 1851 census day.

    By this I'm assuming Mary Murray formerly Eaton, nee Britland died somewhere between 1851 and 1861 but I don't know whether in Derbyshire, Gloucestershire or Colliery Houses, Sherburn, Co. Durham where Joseph and Hannah and family were living in 1861.

    My direct ancestor James' father was a labourer called Thomas which I have from his marriage certificate. His age never varied on censuses give or take 1-2 years sometimes which is normal. The only baptism I have ever found is 5 September 1824 Nantwich, Cheshire. The Cheshire PRDB gives his parents as Thomas Morrey or Morris and Ellen. Thomas Morrey married Ellen Whittingham on Acton by Nantwich. If this is my line then, James has two brothers, Thomas and Joseph and two sisters Jane and Ann. Another researcher has Ann marrying into the Eachus family and Thomas possibly marrying Matilda Capper. I've no idea what happened to Jane.

    I need to prove conclusively that Thomas Morrey and Ellen Whittingham were indeed my James' parents. Hopefully one day, I'll find someone descended from his assumed siblings that can prove the link.

  • #2
    I assume you have these?

    Ancestry.com. England and Wales Christening Records 1530-1906

    James Morrey 5 Sept 1824
    Joseph Morrey 19 Sept 1827
    Thomas Morrey 18 Dec 1829
    Jane Morrey 15 March 1832
    Ann Morrey 30 April 1834

    All Nantwich, Cheshire
    All to parents Thomas Morrey and Ellen

    I can’t find a marriage for your 3XGGF James; I assume it was Ann from Hankelow? Did he marry in the name of Morrey? If you have any census , death cert or will in the name of James Morrey as opposed to Mury, Murray or Morris then I don’t see why you should have any trouble connecting James with his parents Thomas and Ellen.

    __________________________________________________ ______________
    Some other bits and pieces.

    Possible Death: Mary Morris - March 1854 Chesterfield Derbyshire 7b 375 Chesterfield was reg dist for Clay Lane where Joseph and Mary lived 1851.

    Marriage: Joseph Morrey to Hannah Davies Jun 1860 Nantwich 8a 425

    Do you have your 3 XGGF on the 1841 census?
    Jas Morrey transcribed as age 10 but reads 18 on image. Ag lab
    HO107 /116/28/9/12 last one on RHS page very faint.

    The rest of his family are at home on 1841 census but it looks like his father Thomas has remarried to an Elizabeth. All the childrens ages fit .
    HO107/118/31/11/16

    Oops!!!! Elizabeth (Edwards) is his housekeeper on 1851 and they have other children. Thomas Morrey the son is still with them altho’ his age is way out..
    HO107/2169/309/21
    I found Ann Morrey on 1851 census:
    HO107 /2169/372/8

    Jane Morrey
    Marriage
    Age: 20
    Father's name: Thomas Morrey
    Spouse's Name: Jeremiah Jackson
    Spouse's Father's Name:Samuel Jackson
    Marriage date 4 Apr 1853
    Wybunbury, Cheshire, England
    Kat

    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
      I assume you have these?

      Ancestry.com. England and Wales Christening Records 1530-1906

      James Morrey 5 Sept 1824
      Joseph Morrey 19 Sept 1827
      Thomas Morrey 18 Dec 1829
      Jane Morrey 15 March 1832
      Ann Morrey 30 April 1834

      All Nantwich, Cheshire
      All to parents Thomas Morrey and Ellen

      I can’t find a marriage for your 3XGGF James; I assume it was Ann from Hankelow? Did he marry in the name of Morrey? If you have any census , death cert or will in the name of James Morrey as opposed to Mury, Murray or Morris then I don’t see why you should have any trouble connecting James with his parents Thomas and Ellen.

      __________________________________________________ ______________
      Some other bits and pieces.

      Possible Death: Mary Morris - March 1854 Chesterfield Derbyshire 7b 375 Chesterfield was reg dist for Clay Lane where Joseph and Mary lived 1851.

      Marriage: Joseph Morrey to Hannah Davies Jun 1860 Nantwich 8a 425

      Do you have your 3 XGGF on the 1841 census?
      Jas Morrey transcribed as age 10 but reads 18 on image. Ag lab
      HO107 /116/28/9/12 last one on RHS page very faint.

      The rest of his family are at home on 1841 census but it looks like his father Thomas has remarried to an Elizabeth. All the childrens ages fit .
      HO107/118/31/11/16

      Oops!!!! Elizabeth (Edwards) is his housekeeper on 1851 and they have other children. Thomas Morrey the son is still with them altho’ his age is way out..
      HO107/2169/309/21
      I found Ann Morrey on 1851 census:
      HO107 /2169/372/8

      Jane Morrey
      Marriage
      Age: 20
      Father's name: Thomas Morrey
      Spouse's Name: Jeremiah Jackson
      Spouse's Father's Name:Samuel Jackson
      Marriage date 4 Apr 1853
      Wybunbury, Cheshire, England
      Hi Kat,
      Many thanks for your interest. The family baptisms you have found are the same ones I've found but I cannot conclusively prove that the James in 1824 is my James. His year and place of birth in censuses has always been consistent but he was not at home on the 1841 census which would have helped. His mother died (probably) in 1836 if she is the Helen Morrey in the NBI. My James didn't marry till after the birth of the 3rd child brought up as his (consistent on future censuses). The first 2 were both girls but weren't born with the surname Murray. They were both born in Nantwich Union Workhouse and registered with their mother's name of Stockton. I doubt I'll ever prove whether my James Murray was indeed their father despite the couple being together on censuses from 1851. The 1851 census gives the surname wrongly as Morris, the only time that mistake occurs for James apart from the baptisms which LDS have recorded as "Morrey or Morris". Of these 2 girls, Mary later married using her birth name of Stockton (took me yonks and some help from Mary and Elaine to find her) and Ellen had an illegitimate son and thereafter disappears from the face of the earth! She registered her son with the name Murray.

      James 1824 isn't easily identifiable on the 1841 census. On the 1851 he was a pedlar and throughout his life he did something along those lines, being variously a pedlar, hawker, dealer, lodging house keeper and finally owned his own marine supply store. I puzzled about that for while as Ellesmere isn't on the coast but I discovered his address there was just right round the corner from a main canal. Ann Stockton was illegitimate and also at times a hawker with her husband.

      Neither James nor his wife Ann nee Stockton left a will which is odd as they definitely had property. His son James, (my GGF) registered his father's death. None of the possible siblings for James in the baptisms ever appear as witnesses/informants to family events nor as visitors on censuses so I can't link them all that way either. My GGF did leave a will but it mentions nobody but widow and his eldest son to be his executors and the disposal of his beloved piano to his favourite daughter. Nothing unfortunately to siblings or neices and nephews.

      As to 1824 James' father Thomas Morrey - another researcher had the information that he had been living with another woman (the Elizabeth Edwards you have mentioned) after - and likely before the death of his wife Ellen/Helen. At least 2 of her Edwards children are allegedly his. This came from the notes in the entry for Thomas Morrey on the Eachus family website. An Ann Morrey married an Eachus. I looked at the Eachus site last week and these notes have disappeared!! I've no idea if they have been disproved and so removed or if there's just been a wee hitch due to a website update. The site owner had promised last year to look further into Thomas for me. As he isn't directly connected to him, he hadn't done any first hand research himself and couldn't tell me the sources for the notes. I have not yet found a death for the Thomas Morrey who was the father of the baptised children. I'll have to send off for a handful of possibles death certs and hope I can find a recognisable address and/or witness.

      So this is why the possible sibling Joseph is so important to me. There is only the one candidate for him in censuses born in Nantwich at the correct time. The information on his marriages has come from a website transcription of the Derbyshire 1st marriage and the ancestry marriage indexes to find out who his 2nd wife was after finding matching names for children on censuses, as I put in the original posting.

      He is the best hope I've got for finding descendants who could maybe tell me from family papers/certs/wills etc. if my James was indeed his brother.

      I'll look into the Jane Morrey marriage you have found - here's hoping something will click.
      Last edited by GallowayLass; 22-05-11, 22:55. Reason: oodles of typos!

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Kat,

        Have checked out the Jane Morrey marriage in the Cheshire Parish Database Project. Her father was a Thomas Morrey (labourer) and she lived in Shavington which fits with her being in Shavington cum Gresty on the census with a father Thomas and his wife/lover Elizabeth Edwards and also a sister Ann. I also found an entry for the marriage of Ann to robert Eachus which matches the information on the Eachus website. Ann also lived in Shavington and has a labourer Thomas as father. None of the witnesses appear on both entries though but I reckon the girls were sisters right enough - but are they sisters of my 1824 James??? Still nothing to prove that unfortunately.

        I checked out 1861 census for Jeremiah and Jane Jackson but they are not to be found. Ther e is one match but the Jane is born in Congleton which doesn't fit. There is a Jeremiah in Nantwich in 1871 which matches but he has a different wife - an Irish lady called Mary Anne. They have 3 children, 2 of whom are 10 years old. I see there is an 1860 death for a Jane Jackson in Nantwich. I wonder if Jane died young and Jeremiah remarried within the year? Need death cert to find that one out. Family search has no entries for children to Jeremiah and Jane - it's not looking likely that there are any decsendants of Jane for me to follow up, unless of course the two 10 year children were Jane's and she died from childbirth problems. But I'll keep plugging away at it and see if anything comes up.

        UPDATE Jeremiah Jackson and Mary Anne Vickers married in 1868 in Congleton so the children could have all been Jane's. More digging to be done another day!
        Last edited by GallowayLass; 23-05-11, 01:03. Reason: update

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi,
          I have the same problem with three of my lines where the 1841 census doesn't have all the family together; they have married just pre the census. I have someone on Rootsweb looking up some baps for me in Essex at the moment. (We don't have anyone here doing Essex look ups).
          If you do get the marriage cert for Jane then keeping fingers crossed that James will be mentioned as a witness.What a pity no one ever thought to put a relationship to bride or groom box for the witnesses on the marriages entries. would have been really useful!
          Good luck with hunting.
          Kat

          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
            Hi,
            I have the same problem with three of my lines where the 1841 census doesn't have all the family together; they have married just pre the census. I have someone on Rootsweb looking up some baps for me in Essex at the moment. (We don't have anyone here doing Essex look ups).
            If you do get the marriage cert for Jane then keeping fingers crossed that James will be mentioned as a witness.What a pity no one ever thought to put a relationship to bride or groom box for the witnesses on the marriages entries. would have been really useful!
            Good luck with hunting.
            The Cheshire parish register database gives the names of the witnesses and sadly there's not a Morrey amongst them for either Jane or Anne's marriage. I've found that Jeremiah Jackson born Nantwich was alive as a boarder in Oldham in 1911 and he died there that same year. He is also a boarder elsewhere in 1901 and alrady widowed. He just can't be found in 1861, 1881 or 1891. Have been using the FMP version of census. I tried looking for his son Charles from 1881 onwards and there's none born Nantwich - what a pest!! LOL

            Comment

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