When did Joseph die and who is Nellie?!

[Kate P]

Hello all,

I hope you can help me again! I'm trying to track down the death of my great grandfather Joseph Henry Jackson born sept qtr 1878 in Newcastle under Lyme, Staffs. I can track him down on censuses with his parents John Jackson and Alice Steen, and later with his wife Gertrude Tunnicliff. He is listed as deceased on son William's (my grandfather) marriage cert of Sept 1940. My aunt says that her father, William lost both his parents when he was quite young and was brought up by his eldest brother. I know Gertrude died in 1923 but I don't have her cert so I don't know if Joseph was the informant. The only feasible death for a Joseph Jackson in Staffordshire between 1916 (William's birth) and 1940 is in the Dec qtr of 1927 - the ages at death for the others are all way out (imo, but would welcome a second pair of eyes!)

I ordered that certificate and that Joseph Jackson died aged 49, on 7 October 1927 in Stoke on Trent. The informant is listed as Nellie Rathbone, sister, of Audley Road, Alsager. There is a marriage of a Nellie Jackson to an Edward Rathbone in Dec qtr 1908 in Newcastle under Lyme (freebmd) and from staffsbmd it took place in St Martins, Talke, Newcastle, which fits with her address as informant.

Now, there is a oneworldtree on ancestry which has this 'Nellie' born to parents John and Sarah Ann in Lancashire in 1885, as Ellen Jackson. There is no brother Joseph listed, but the tree is a very limited one. My Joseph on the censuses does not have a sister named Nellie, but does have sisters Sarah Alice and Mary Ann. I've managed to track Sarah Alice and she married a Henry Colclough, with no apparent re-marriage either. Mary Ann I couldn't trace, far too many possibilities, but there seems to be no marriage of a Mary Ann Jackson to a Rathbone in the relevant timeframe in Staffordshire, nor of a Mary anybody to a male Rathbone.

So I am left with a number of queries:
1. Do I have the wrong certificate for Joseph? But there would seem to be no other possibilities.
2. Could 'Nellie' actually be Mary Ann? But there are no obvious marriages, and the existing tree evidence weighs against this.

I'd love it if you could cast a more experienced eye than mine over this knotty problem,
Kate x

[Elaine ..Spain]

The informant is listed as Nellie Rathbone, sister, of Audley Road, Alsager. There is a marriage of a Nellie Jackson to an Edward Rathbone in Dec qtr 1908 in Newcastle under Lyme (freebmd) and from staffsbmd it took place in St Martins, Talke, Newcastle, which fits with her address as informant.

Have you checked this family on the 1911 census?
Doing a free search there appears to be an Edward and Nellie Rathbone living in Congleton with their two children Arthur and Edward. Checking Nellie's place of birth using the free search on Genes Reunited, it seems to be Eccles Lancashire - which seems a bit off track for your family.

[Chrissie Smiff]

What about the Joseph H Jackson who died April-June 1936 aged 60 in Stoke on Trent Staffordshire ref 6b 179 ?
I know that it's 3 years out in age but it isn't unusual for the age to be a bit out.

Also, the one you sent for in just Joseph Jackson but he was born Joseph H Jackson.

[Kate P]

I agree Elaine. I haven't seen the transcription but had found that family in 1911. Your finding of that Nellie's birthplace as Lancs ties in with the ancestry oneworldtree as do the children listed, which leads me to think I don't have the right death cert. Chrissie: you're right about the missing middle name, though I've got lots of death certs in particular where the middle name is missing and the age at death led me to send for that one first. There's also a Dec 1932 death for a Joseph F Jackson (a mistranscription?) for an implied dob of 1879 which might be a possibility. I'm in dire financial straits right now and really can't afford to get it wrong again! Oh what to do?!

[Chrissie Smiff]

I have looked at the one in Dec 1932 and it doesn't look like a mistranscription Kate? It clearly looks like Joseph F Jackson.

Perhaps it might be worth contacting the local Register office and explaining you problem.
The Register Office, Town Hall, Albion Street, Hanley, Stoke on Trent, ST1 1XP.
Tel: 01782 235260. Fax: 01782 235258.
E mail: enquiries@stoke.gov.uk

[nickyinsunnysussex]

Just checked the 1911 for Edward and Nellie...POB for Nellie is Eccles Lancs and address is Audley Road Alsager ...same as the death cert you have.


nicky

[Kate P]

I'll give it a go but unfortunately Stoke Register office are not known for their friendliness towards family historians. They won't take orders for genealogy purposes apparently. But in other news I'm going back to Stoke at the end of the month for the first time in nearly five years. I'll get to see my old stamping grounds and to see the streets where my ancestors lived. I'm so excited! It really feels as if I'll be going with a fresh pair of eyes and will be seeing the place very differently. I can't wait

[Chrissie Smiff]

Some register offices are better at going the extra mile than others. However, I find that if you send them a really polite and friendly e-mail, and sound as though you aren't too experienced ;) and are asking them for help, they will often do things that they don't normally do. Worth a try. I hope they don't google and find my comment or my cover is blown :D

I hope you enjoy your trip Kate and that you solve your problem too.