Finding a marriage Eire, British Army or India

[norwayjane]

Henry Piper (Bachelor) married Catherine Fahey (Spinster) according to the birth cert for his daughter Harriett born 1876 in Bara Gully in British India.
There were two other Piper children born in India Elizabeth born in 1874 and James 1878.
In the 1911 Irish census Catherine(Kate) says that she had been married for 20 years and that she has had 5 children of whom 2 are still alive. If the death of Henry Piper(Family Search) in Limerick in 1891 is the correct one then they probably married in 1871.
Henry signed up in 1864 in Limerick in the 17th Regiment of Foot. In February 1870 he arrived in Lucknow
I believe their marriage was possibly Church of Ireland - Any ideas where I can look?

J

[Guest]

there are some irish records on familysearch

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927084

[norwayjane]

Thanks for that but they're not there
j

[kylejustin]

have you tried the overseas marriage son fmp?

[kylejustin]

can't see anything in english indexes, the army indexes, or foreign nationals index either. have you tried the same place in india? as in where the kids were born?

[norwayjane]

Thanks Kyle, Have tried FMP and the indexes I can think of but at a standstill.
Elizabeth, the oldest child was born in Lucknow - not sure where to look.
Hoping for help
J

[norwayjane]

have just looked at FIBIS site (families in British India) - no joy there
J

[PhotoFamily]

You've looked for his military record? I found a marriage date in one ancestor's record.

Also, do you have the record for James' birth? It is in FamilySearch

A marriage in Ireland in 1864-70 should be part of Irish Civil Reg, but the records seem so fragmented. My ancestors' marriage in Ireland in 1863 is on Civil Reg, but not in army records. I looked in RootsIreland but didn't find anything.

[norwayjane]

Thanks PhotoFamily especially for the roots Ireland bit
I've got his Chelsea pensioner record from FMP but no marriage mention on there. Sounds daft but I'd assumed that he wouldn't have an army record as well - will look for that
j

[PhotoFamily]

Others are more knowledgeable than I about the military records in FMP. I can't say whether I retrieved a military record or his Chelsea Pensioner record from FMP. I'm not sure both exist on FMP. But the record I obtained did not list distribution of pension, when he died, or anything else that relates to retirement, except years of service and date of discharge. It did give me marriage date and location, and full name of the wife.

Does anyone know where civil registration records reside? Are records intact?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I don't think there's an online index for Irish civil records.
You need to apply to the GRO in Dublin

http://www.groireland.ie/

You could ask for a search covering several years, perhaps.(ETA just spotted you already have the marriage date, so that makes a search relatively easy.
Sorry, ignore that last bit - I'm confusing different posters & their comments)
Try Dublin and ask them to do an extended search.

Jay

[Janet]

If you can get to Kew TNA then the muster records should help you find all the children including the Irish and Indian ones but these muster records are not available online so it will be a personal approach to Kew or ask a researcher to do it for you. I am surprised though that you have been unable to locate the army marriage and baptisms on FMP. I located my army marriage in Ireland in 1865 established church and one baptism Ireland 1866 through the army baptismal register on FMP. These army baptismal registers date back to the late 1700's. I take it that you have actually looked at the Army Baptisms on FMP and not the ordinary BMD registration?

Janet

[annswabey]

The Army birth and marriage records in that index are by no means complete.

[PhotoFamily]

I was told that 1863 RE marriage and subsequent birth in Curragh Camp would not be recorded in military records, as Ireland was not considered a foreign country at that time? Ireland being considered part of the UK at that time.

Not true?

Have found the marriage in Irish Civil Reg, but birth Civil Reg didn't start until 1864. Haven't found the parish records for the C/I church in Curragh camp.

Second child's birth in Bermuda was indexed (and retrieved from GRO).

[Janet]

All the army marriages and baptisms were recorded in the Index to Army Regimental book from about 1780 onwards which book used to be at the old FRC in London. However, when the FRC closed all these records transferred to FMP and are free to browse but you then have to pay to access. It was from this book that I did all my own army research but have done a little through FMP. As these pages have been transcribed directly from the book for FMP I would be very surprised if they have not all been transcribed.

My own Great Grandfather was married in an Irish esablished church in Fermoy in 1865 and the Vol and Page Number were in the book which enabled me to write to GRO Southport with relevant vol and page no and I was supplied with the marriage certificate showing his regiment, his father's name and bridegroom and her father's name with witnesses. One daughter was baptised at the Curragh Camp and again I sent details of Vol and Page No to GRO Southport for the certificate. Although the1866 Certificate was a baptismal certificate rather than a birth cert it showed her birth and baptismal date as well as all the other usual details but also the regt and staus was on the cert so he had gone from Private to Sergt between the marriage and the birth. Everything else on the baptismal cert was the same as a birth cert. The beauty of these certs is that if they are in Ireland pre 1864 they will come under the English rule ie they will all go back to 1837 and if you are lucky enough to have Irish marriages and baptisms through army folk you can take them back to 1780ish but you do not obtain them through Ireland but through the GRO Southport.

One interesting point is that the marriage I have is Church of Ireland which surprised me at the time as my Irish Great Grandmother was RC and children brought up as RC, so whether or not it was compulsory for British soldiers to marry within the Church of Ireland is another matter, and what would have happened had they refused I am not sure, so maybe some of the RC faith refused to marry according to army rules? This is where some may then not have been recorderd by the army if they married at the local RC church?

Janet

[annswabey]

I understand that there are lot more Army birth and marriage records at the GRO which have not been indexed. The records on FMP and presumably the ones which used to be at the FRC are just the indexed ones.

[PhotoFamily]

Thank you. Very useful info!

[Janet]

That is very interesting to know that other army B&M are at the GRO and have not been indexed. I will suggest that to FMP the next time I complete one of their questionaires.

Janet