Isabella Shaw

[Phanuel]

Am seeking birth details of Isabella Shaw who married John Duncan 1859 in Glasgow.. Parents shown on Cert as John&Isabella(nee McQuhae)Shaw father's profession Writer... 1871 Census Walsall & 1881 Census Glasgow both record her birthplace as Castle Douglas..LDS site shows a John Duncan/Isabella McQuhae had 3 children viz: Jane Brown Shaw b1823,twins Martha Shaw & Nicolas Barbour Shaw b 1828 all born Kelton.Kirkcudbright..searches on Scotspeople site have produced no results so far .. would appreciate any suggestions.
Regards
Phanuel

[herky]

Hi,
I am having trouble finding the 1881 census you mention - I will keep looking but if you have more details then that would be great.
EDIT
OOOOPPS - silly me - ignore that, I see what I have done - off to look for it now with my brain switched on!

[herky]

Sorry but now I am confused again - you say that John Duncan and Isabella McQuhae had three children - do you mean John Shaw and Isabella Mcquhae??

I still can't find the census.

[GallowayLass]

Try searching with Dumfriesshire. I've had this problem online with Kelton before and have told SP on more than one occasion that they have the county wrong. Maybe they still haven't bothered to fix it.

Kelton parish is right beside the town of Castle Douglas (once known as Causewayend) and is indeed in Kirkcudbrightshire. Even with boundary changes over the years it has never been subject to change.

[GallowayLass]

I've found the 1881 census entry. Place of birth given as Gallowshire, Castle Douglas. Honestly LOL!! (Galloway is the name given to the combination of the 2 shires of Kirkcudbright and Wigtown plus a bit of the south of Ayrshire from the old Kingdom of Galloway). Not sure how much you know of the geography of the south west but if you come across a mention of the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright (or simply "The Stewartry") it's the same thing as Kirkcudbrightshire.

Will have a look at the people index for 1841 and 1851 for Kelton and see if I can find anything for you.

[Elaine ..Spain]

I can see the family in the 1841 and 1851 census (at least I presume it's the right one!)

1841

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1841Scotland&indiv=try&h=1045466

Parish: Kelton; ED: 1A; Page: 1; Line: 890; Roll: ; Year: 1841.

1851

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&f4=isabella&f6=shaw&sx=&f1=&f2=&f22=&f10=&f11=&f16=&f20=&rg_81004011__date=1836&rs_81004011__date=2&f13__ftp=&f8=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&gskw=&prox=1&db=1851scotland&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=6&h=2374523&recoff=&qid=69e0991ccf4b46b7a096bd3ac223caa4

Parish: Dumfries; ED: 12; Page: 3; Line: 10; Roll: 424; Year: 1851.

.. but cannot see anything on SP!

[herky]

I have found her in 1841 - at least a little success - says bc 1836, Kircudbrightshire, living in Kelton with mother and siblings.
1851 - with brother in Dumfries as lodgers. Says she was b in Kelton.
Not that this is any help in finding her birth - sorry.

[herky]

I wonder if she was baptised in a church that was not Church of Scotland - these records may not be on SP.
What church was her marriage in?

[herky]

I've found the 1881 census entry. Place of birth given as Gallowshire, Castle Douglas. Honestly LOL!! (Galloway is the name given to the combination of the 2 shires of Kirkcudbright and Wigtown plus a bit of the south of Ayrshire from the old Kingdom of Galloway). Not sure how much you know of the geography of the south west but if you come across a mention of the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright (or simply "The Stewartry") it's the same thing as Kirkcudbrightshire.

Will have a look at the people index for 1841 and 1851 for Kelton and see if I can find anything for you.

Thanks - don't know how I missed it:o - lovely part of the world, I have had many nice holidays there

[GallowayLass]

This is transcription by local family history society for 1851 census.

http://www.dgcommunity.net/historica...r=&ref=12%2f40

[GallowayLass]

ok - here we are - from the OPR fiche index. All the mentions of children of John SHAW and Isabella McQUHAE in Kelton. All are actual dates of birth. Sorry but Isabella is not listed.

Jane Brown born 22 January 1823
David born 24 March 1826
Martha and Nicholas Barbour both born 10 January 1828
John born 5 January 1830
William born 14 June 1832

I can find no mention in any of the 3 counties of a marriage between a John SHAW and an Isabella (or variant) McQUHAE (or variant) nor can I find a birth or christening for that Isabella.

On the 1841 census image, Ancestry have added 2 extra persons to the household. There is a single line between Isabella SHAW and Jane BLACKIE and a double line between John LOWDEN and Margaret CHARTERS. So she and the female servant Jannet SLATER (not STATER as transcribed) are in a separate household.

The only extra bit of useful info is that on the 1841 census, David is listed as an apprentice cloth merchant.

Isabella's marriage to John DUNCAN should tell you if both her parents were still alive. If so that should make it easier for you to track back another generation from their death certificates.

[Phanuel]

Thanks everyone for your help..just a few points Isabella's marriage to John Duncan 9Aug 1859 Glasgow shows her parents John Shaw & Isabella McQuhae as deceased and I note that there were two witnesses David Shaw & Peter Fergus...1881 Census Glasgow records John Duncan 49 Cloth Manufacturer,Isabella,wife birthplace Castle Douglas ..also see that a David Shaw age 15 is listed as an apprentice cloth merchant on the 1841 Census could it be that if he was in fact my Isabella's brother there was a connection with her marriage to John Duncan!..a final twist John Shaw was recorded as Writer(Lawyer /Solicitor) and Scotspeople wills& testaments 8April 1848 Cupar Sheriff Court refSC 20/50/18 list a John Shaw Writer in Cupar ... or is this too much of a longshot!!

[GallowayLass]

Dunno but here's another long shot...

Do you have somewhere in your tree a connection to the Hannay family? - various locations; Hampshire, London, Blairinnie Farm near Crossmichael, Glasgow, Karnau in Upper India and of course Kelton parish.

If so, there's a grave plot in Kelton with both sides of the headstone/monument inscribed. It must be a pretty big one going by the number of names on it! A number of Shaws get a mention who died in Kelton parish and are buried within the enclosure of the plot. Sadly it does not give ages or death dates. The connection to the Hannay family is presumably that a Marion Shaw was married to a James Hannay.

If you are very lucky then there's the possibility that your Isabella Duncan nee Shaw's father John had siblings called David and Martha (highly likely given family naming patterns and that your Isabella also siblings with those forenames and would explain why her eldest sister was Jane Brown Shaw) and his parents were David Shaw and Jane Brown. On his death, David snr. was living at Mains of Kelton.

The text of the transcription of the relevant part is "Here also rest the mortal remains of David Shaw in Mains of Kelton. Jane Brown, his wife, David, Martha, John and Isabella, his wife, their children, who all died in this Parish and was [sic] buried within this enclosure"

I take that to mean David and Jane plus 3 children plus 1 daughter in law but I could be wrong.

If you need to check out names and dates for the Hannay people in the plot let me know and I'll look them up for you.

[Phanuel]

GallowayLass

Apologies for not replying am having pc probs and will be without a pc (due to be collected tomorrow..I hope!)
Trust this missive arrives.
Regards
Phanuel

[Phanuel]

GallowayLass pc fixed!!

Am puzzled by OPR Birth 858/00 0020 0050 Borgue which shows "Isabella lawful daughter of John Shaw and William Houston born at Blackbriggs of Mickle Isle Sep 2 1836...David Shaw DOB Mar 24 1826 GROS 869/00 0020 Kelton(parents John Shaw/Isabella McQuhae) could be her brother shown as a witness on Isabella's marriage cert to John Duncan 1859 in Glasgow?... looking at the 1841 Census shows Isabella Shaw age 46 Ind lists children including Isabella age 5...no mention of father John... had he played away and fathered another child (Isabella) who was brought up with the rest of his brood!!!??

All very complicated to say the least

Phanuel