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  • Correct form of address

    In which order should I name my great grandmother?

    She was illegitimate, but later took her stepfather's name........so, which should it be?

    She was born as a 'Nelson' (her mother's name), her stepfather was a 'Madeley', and her married name was Dutton.

    So do I put......Jane Dutton (Nee Madeley - formerly Nelson) OR Jane Dutton (Nee Nelson - formerly Madeley). Or does it not really matter?
    Jen
    Avatar: One of my paintings.

    Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.


  • #2
    I don't think you can say nee unless it refers to a birth name so I would put Jane Dutton formerly Madeley nee Nelson. That way anyone who wanted to lookfor her birth would look under Nelson.
    That I think is the 'correct' way of expressing it.
    Margaret

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    • #3
      That's exactly what I thought too Margaret, nee, as far as I have always understood it relates to the name they were born under. Just needed to make sure I had it right. Many thanks Margaret.
      Jen
      Avatar: One of my paintings.

      Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

      Comment


      • #4
        It depends whether you are English or French.
        In England nee means maiden name (i.e. the last surname before marriage).
        In France it means born.

        Therefore assuming you are constructing an English genealogy the form should be
        Jane Dutton (Nee Madeley - formerly Nelson)

        Cheers
        Guy
        Guy passed away October 2022

        Comment


        • #5
          I would put Jane Dutton (born Nelson, aka Madeley)

          Jay
          Janet in Yorkshire



          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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          • #6
            what does it state on her marriage certificate ?
            Mike in Droitwich

            My family tree is on
            http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

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            • #7
              On her marriage cert, she calls herself Jane Madeley, which is her stepfather's name. She was born a Nelson as her mother was not married when Jane was born. When her mother did marry some 3 yrs after Jane's birth to William madeley, I am assuming that she was just told her name was Madeley, as her mother went on to have 2 more children to her husband. I don't think there was a legal adoption as such.

              Interestingly, the witnesses to Jane's marriage was a William Nelson (her grandfather) and Jane Nelson (her aunt).
              Jen
              Avatar: One of my paintings.

              Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Guy View Post
                It depends whether you are English or French.
                In England nee means maiden name (i.e. the last surname before marriage).
                In France it means born.

                Therefore assuming you are constructing an English genealogy the form should be
                Jane Dutton (Nee Madeley - formerly Nelson)

                Cheers
                Guy
                That's interesting Guy, I may have to go with your explanation then, as it is an English genealogy
                Jen
                Avatar: One of my paintings.

                Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have never yet seen the word "nee" on an English/Welsh certificate.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                    I have never yet seen the word "nee" on an English/Welsh certificate.

                    OC
                    true. it's always 'previously' and 'formerly'.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My point being that the word "nee" means "born" in French. It isn't an English word, so if we use it in England it must keep its French meaning, surely.

                      Jane Dutton, formerly Madeley, nee(born) Nelson.

                      Or better still

                      Jane Dutton previously Madeley, nee Nelson.

                      OC
                      Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 05-05-11, 07:27. Reason: apostrophe abuse

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Much as I hesitate to disagree with Guy, I agree with OC.

                        And I love your reason for the edit OC!;D
                        Vivienne passed away July 2013

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                        • #13
                          I agree too!! Here's a quote from the Oxford English Dictionary online
                          Née = originally called ; born (used in giving a married woman's maiden name after her surname):
                          Mary Toogood, née Johnson

                          Margaret

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                            I agree too!! Here's a quote from the Oxford English Dictionary online
                            Née = originally called ; born (used in giving a married woman's maiden name after her surname):
                            Mary Toogood, née Johnson

                            Margaret
                            That quote agrees with me Margaret "used in giving a married woman's maiden name after her surname". A maiden name is not always the name one is born with but is the name used before marriage. That might be the birth name but it does not have to be the birth name.
                            This is where the confusion occurs.
                            If the maiden name is different from the birth name the nee refers (in English) to the maiden name.
                            Cheers
                            Guy
                            Guy passed away October 2022

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Guy View Post
                              That quote agrees with me Margaret "used in giving a married woman's maiden name after her surname". A maiden name is not always the name one is born with but is the name used before marriage. That might be the birth name but it does not have to be the birth name.
                              This is where the confusion occurs.
                              If the maiden name is different from the birth name the nee refers (in English) to the maiden name.
                              Cheers
                              Guy
                              I'm not sure it agrees with you because if you look at the definition it says 'originally named / born' so the example is simply giving some context that does not envisage there being another name that you 'originally' have or are 'born' with.
                              Margaret

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Oh dear, I'm really confused now folks lol! In this case, I don't suppose it will matter that much as it's only for my records and future generations. I have all ready made it clear that she was illegitimate and therefore born under her mother's name.
                                I will never know why Jane (not being legally adopted by her stepfather), chose to call herself a Madeley at marriage, particularly as her witnesses were Nelson's. As at that time, her mother had died and her stepfather had re~married...so there appeared to have been no further contact with him after that. I can only surmise that she was always led to believe she was. Although growing up, if she was aware of when her mother married (some 3 years after her birth), she would have realised she was born a Nelson.
                                I expect, it was so she would not appear to others to have been illegitimate in the first place.
                                Jen
                                Avatar: One of my paintings.

                                Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Margaret

                                  I agree with you - I don't see how "Nee" can mean anything other than "the name you were born with" whether you are English or French!

                                  OC

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                                  • #18
                                    Try looking up maiden name and you will see it means the surname before marriage.
                                    Not the surname one is born with.

                                    AS the Oxford Dictionary puts it
                                    "the surname that a married woman used before she was married and which she may still use when married, especially in her employment." ;)
                                    Cheers
                                    Guy
                                    Guy passed away October 2022

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Why not leave out the confusing nee altogether and go with the wording used on birth registrations:
                                      Jane DUTTON (ie the surname in use after marriage) formerly NELSON (ie her birth mother's name) late MADELEY (ie the surname used lately - most often this was surname from a previous marriage but equally could apply to a surname of a step parent)

                                      Or how about formerly NELSON known as MADELEY.
                                      Judith passed away in October 2018

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                                      • #20
                                        Exactly, Judith! The word "nee" is not used on English/Welsh certs - why would it be, it's a French word!

                                        OC

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