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Alec
02-05-11, 08:40
I have found two entries in ancestry and the LDS site for a marriage that fits my knowledge. Elizabeth was the daughter of Samuel Holt Stubley, a watchmaker who died in 1847.

The LDS info is as follows:

George Price Jones (https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9QTW-5FR/p4)England Marriages, 1538–1973

marriage31 Oct 1875 —St. Simon, Liverpool, Lancaster, Englandparents:Samuel Jonesspouse:Elizabeth Stubleyrecord title:England Marriages, 1538–1973 groom's name:George Price Jonesbride's name:Elizabeth Stubleymarriage date:31 Oct 1875marriage place:St. Simon, Liverpool, Lancaster, Englandgroom's father's name:Samuel Jonesbride's father's name:Samuel Stubleyindexing project (batch) number:M01653-5system origin:England-EASysource film number:1656676


George Price Jones (https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9QT4-41S/p4)England Marriages, 1538–1973

marriage01 Dec 1862 —St. Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, Englandparents:Samuel Jonesspouse:Elizabeth Stubleyrecord title:England Marriages, 1538–1973 groom's name:George Price Jonesbride's name:Elizabeth Stubleymarriage date:01 Dec 1862marriage place:St. Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, Englandgroom's father's name:Samuel Jonesbride's father's name:Samuel Stubleygroom's marital status:Singlebride's marital status:Singleindexing project (batch) number:M00714-8system origin:England-EASysource film number:1656681 We have also found a record on the ancestry site fo Liverpool Marriages for the 1875 marriage, which states Elizabeth's father as Samuel and occupation as watchmaker (even so long after his death?).

Although their names are not that uncommon, it does seem a bit far fetched that the bride, groom and their parents names are identical in both cases.

Olde Crone Holden
02-05-11, 08:52
Both these marriages also appear on Lancsbmd, so there is no doubt that there are two marriages. If it is the same couple - and it looks like it from here, lol - maybe they lost their marriage cert and remarried? Yes, far fetched, I know!

You could try emailing Liverpool Register Office and asking them to compare the two certs to see if it is definitely the same couple.

(Your father's occupation remains the same whether he is dead or alive!)

OC

Elaine ..Spain
02-05-11, 09:27
The 1875 marriage certificate is on Ancestry. I see it shows George Price Jones as a widower - yet the 1862 entry which you have quoted in your post showed his marital status as single.

Marriage certificate - http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2197&iid=englb5617_283-sim-3-5_m_00085&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Stubley&st=r&ssrc=&pid=4972372

Maybe the first time round (1862) he was still a married man so in effect it was a bigamous marriage - therefore the need to marry again once he was legally able.

Elaine ..Spain
02-05-11, 09:57
Just checked Ancestry and they only have the images for St Peter marriage registers from 1813-1844 and 1907-1919.
Probably worth keeping an eye out as hopefully they will upload the middle range as well.

Alec
08-05-11, 01:01
Thanks OC and Elaine for your thoughts. I see Ancestry have added some Liverpool parish records so will take a look at these before geting copies of the marriage certificates. Would have got back to you sooner but I broke my monitor on Monday, ordered a new one Monday night, despatched Wednesday, and DHL delivered it today (next day delivery!!?).

Christine in Herts
08-05-11, 13:49
OH's tree has a couple who married first (by Licence) on 21 Nov 1811, and then (by Banns) on 1 Sep 1812 - in the same church, each time. So far I haven't found any specific evidence as to the reason for them to do that, but have come up with an assortment of speculative ideas!

Christine

Alec
09-05-11, 19:17
I've ordered the certificate for the 1862 marriage and will get back if anything interesting or positive.

Alec

Alec
12-05-11, 19:08
I've got the certificate for the 1862 marriage. It looks like these have to be the same individuals.

The 1862 certificate shows that the groom's occupation (and his father) was "block maker" and the bride's father was a watchmaker. The 1875 parish entry for 1875 shows the groom (and his father's) occupations to be "block and spar maker" with the bride's father a watchmaker.

The names of bride, groom and both fathers are identical in both documents.

The main puzzle is that the groom in 1875 is a widower but is single in 1862. I can't figure that one out unless Elaine is right about a bigamous marriage.

Alec

Christine in Herts
12-05-11, 19:31
The main puzzle is that the groom in 1875 is a widower but is single in 1862. I can't figure that one out unless Elaine is right about a bigamous marriage.

That would certainly be a reasonable explanation. Do you have the groom's PoB info, so that you can see if you can spot him any earlier, and find a previous marriage?

Christine

Elaine ..Spain
12-05-11, 20:01
He appears to be single on the 1861 census, living with his parents Samuel and Jane, presuming I have the right family
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1861%2c&rank=0&gsfn=george&gsln=jones&sx=&gsco=&s0RealGL=UKICen&f1=&f2=&f5=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1840&rs_81004011__date=5&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=samuel&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=UKICEN&fh=5&h=23245832&recoff=&qid=60d9c5a776f54343bfe68152a983d0f0

... but have a look at this marriage certificate of George Jones to Mary Long in 1859 - the occupations seems to be a match - what about the hand writing compared to the other two certificates you have.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=george&gsln=jones&sx=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f7=&f8=&rg_f9__date=&rs_f9__date=0&f20=&f13=&f14=&f16=samuel&f17=&f18=&f19=&gskw=&db=liverpoolcoemarriages&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=16&h=1974769&recoff=9+10+31+32+57&qid=c6dc9f81865b417882d3d29df736f86c

Alec
12-05-11, 23:17
Difficult to tell about the hand writing. He hasn't signed with the "Price" but the occupation is the same and so is his father's name and occupation.

Alec

Christine in Herts
12-05-11, 23:51
With JONES, it's tricky, but is there an 1874/5 death, in the right area, for a Mary JONES of a likely age?

Christine

Alec
13-05-11, 17:28
I'm having problems finding him/them in the 1871 census so not sure what the right area would necessarily be. There are loads of Mary Jones in deaths for that period so may be very difficult to narrow this down much.

Alec