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  • Is this likely

    have an Agnes Webb born 1884 Walthamstowe Essex married to a John Rose with children living in Hackney in 1911
    Have never found a Marriage for this couple

    Have found a Death for an Agnes Webb Dec 1963 age 77 in Hackney ??
    Would you say this is likely to be her ???
    Thanks

  • #2
    Is it possible he was married before and they are his children? Or it's a bigamous marriage and she found out.
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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    • #3
      hi and thanks Uncle John ,no not found him married before but he was Jewish ?? so wondered if she wasn't ??? have the birth cert of one of the children and they are the parents .

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      • #4
        Any chance you can find a burial record - or memorial inscription - which might make it a bit more likely one way or the other?

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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        • #5
          thanks Christine not sure where to look ?

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          • #6
            hi - have you seen the marriage in mar 1903 - john rose married esther cohen in hackney - is it possible this was him? I don't have access to 1911, but I think it would be worth eliminating that one?
            Darannon

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            • #7
              thanks for that Darannon just had a look and he was born in Camberwell she in London so not my John but thanks for looking, I am almost convinced to order that death cert, after all not bought one for ages , so if its wrong not wasted too much.
              I have searched way past the years I would have expected her to die and no Agnes Rose ???

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              • #8
                It would be a bit odd though if Agnes spent all her life calling herself Webb and then someone else (possibly a son or daughter) giving her maiden name on her death.
                Margaret

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                • #9
                  In terms of the marriage. I have seen it on here that sometimes Jewish people simply get married in the Synagogue and don't bother with civil registration so it might be worth seeing if the one local to where they lived would check for a marriage for you.
                  Margaret

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                  • #10
                    All weddings must be registered including those at synagogues or indeed in private Jewish houses. All my husband's Jewish branch of the family have registered marriages.
                    Last edited by Little Nell; 30-04-11, 13:26.
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                      All weddings must be registered including those at synagogues or indeed in private Jewish houses. All my husband's Jewish branch of the family have registered marriages.
                      I think the suggestion otherwise was based on some of the experience Wallaby has had in her Quest.

                      There are some marriages for which a civil record doesn't seem to be available, and yet it's hard to imagine that the people in question would have lived as man and wife without going through a ceremony they recognised as official in some way. The only explanation we could come up with was that whoever was responsible didn't consider the civil bit very important, so may not have made sure that the events were properly recorded. The couple would have had no qualms about regarding themselves as married once a religious ceremony was complete.

                      It seemed a particular risk in an immigrant community where a language barrier might have meant that the civil requirements were not fully understood.

                      Christine
                      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                      • #12
                        got me thinking now ??? I might email The Beth Din ,thanks all

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                        • #13
                          Some Jewish people got 'married' in a religious sense, but didn't record it in the civil records...my ggf did this...also called a 'silent wedding'...

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                          • #14
                            If Agnes was Jewish, unlikely that was her real name..although there is a name Agnessa...John may have been Jonathan, Jonas, Joseph etc etc. Have you looked through the USBS burial site and the Cheshunt and Enfield lists? He might also be buried in a Federation cemetery..I've got the email if you send me a pm...It might be easier to find the burials and work back that way.
                            Also, anything in the JC Archives? e.g an Isaac John Rose passed away in 1934 aged 45..there are quite a few John Rose's in there...good chance that Rose was Rosenberg...
                            Got any addresses?
                            Last edited by naomiatt; 03-05-11, 23:37.

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                            • #15
                              hi Naomi he is one of my Guttentags they changed their name to Rose . I do have his Birth cert , I did see that Death in 1934 and on his sons marriage in 1937 it does say father deceased so could have been likely , but Isaac was his Brothers name not his, if anything he could have been called Jacob previously.
                              Thanks for your interest.

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                              • #16
                                Hi, are you finding any records under Guttenthal not Guttentag...if you can find Isaac's burial for example, that might lead to the others..

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                                • #17
                                  the trouble is Naomi they switched names whenever it suited them so hard to pin down.

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