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  • French research

    I have posted this on every french mailing list I can find. No harm in puting it on here, you never know.

    English version

    BIRDWISA -- BOURDOISEAU ou BOURDOISANT ou BOURDOISE ?

    We are descended from a man who settled in Scotland and married a Scottish girl in March 1882. They had numerous children whose descendants now live in Scotland, England, USA, Canada and Spain.

    This man's name is recorded in Scottish records as Gustave Julien BIRDWISA, but he couldn't read or write and told his children that 'Birdwisa' was not the right way to write his name.

    Could it be that his name was really BOURDOISEAU or BOURDOISANT or BOURDOISE? Someone, we don't know who, has entered him on the International Genealogical Index as having been born in France, in 1844.

    We hope that some modern day French people called Bourdoiseau or Bourdoisant or Bourdoise might find this group and recognise our ancestor as a member of their own family tree. Gustave's father may have been called Victor; his mother may have been called Marie Louise or Louise, and she may have remarried after Victor's death to someone with a surname similar to Russell.

    Version française

    BIRDWISA – BOURDOISEAU ou BOURDOISANT ou BOURDOISE

    Nous sommes les descendants d’un homme (semble-t-il d’origine française) venu s’installer en Ecosse, qui s’est marié avec une fille écossaise en mars 1882. Ils ont eu plusieurs enfants, dont les descendants habitent en Ecosse, en Angleterre, aux Etats-Unis, au Canada et en Espagne.

    Le nom de cette personne, tel que cité dans les archives écossaises, est Gustave Julien BIRDWISA.

    Ce monsieur était illettré, ne sachant ni lire ni écrire. Néanmoins, des souvenirs de famille rapportent qu'il était convaincu que l’orthographe de son nom était incorrecte. Serait-t-il possible que son nom fût BOURDOISEAU ou BOURDOISANT ou BOURDOISE ? Un inconnu a placé son nom dans le «International Genealogical Index», donnant pour date de naissance 1844, en France.

    Nous espérons que des Bourdoiseau, Bourdoisant ou Bourdoise vivant en France reconnaîtront notre ancêtre. Nous pensons que le père de Gustave s’appelait Victor et sa mère Marie Louise ou Louise. Sa mère s'est remariée après le décès de Victor, et a pris le nom de famille de son nouvel époux, Russell (?).

  • #2
    Don't his age or parents' names appear in his Scottish marriage or death cert?

    Comment


    • #3
      Previous thread with more details here:



      His mothers maiden name Delony/Delany I think should probably be De Laune if she is French. Gustave sounds rather Germanic though doesn't it? Might suggest Alsace region if he is French?

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes I have posted this before, thought I would just add it here as its posted on all the french mailing lists. All the paperwork we have on him is:
        1. 10/03/1882 Marriage certificate gives his age as 36. Parents Victor and Mary Louisa ms Delony.
        2. 1901 census gives his age as 50 and born in France and states British Subject, can find no proof of this.
        3. 13/03/1915 death certificate gives his age as 60. Parents Victor and Louisa Russell, previously Birdwisa ms Delony.
        4. I have have his seamans discharge book from 1901-1906 gives his date of birth as 1850 in Toronto.

        He could not read and write, all the surviving Birdwisa's say he was born in France

        Comment


        • #5
          Have you looked for him at all in any of the Canadian census and BMD records?
          Margaret

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
            Have you looked for him at all in any of the Canadian census and BMD records?
            Margaret
            Not yet, just got this possible surname last week.

            Comment


            • #7
              I was just thinking how BIRDWISA would be pronounced in Scotland - of what it could be a transliteration. I'd have thought that the "Bird" bit would tend to sound more like "Baird", but I agree about the second half. That way you could end up with a name like BERDOUISE... or PERTWEE. There do seem to be some people called PERTOUSE in Scottish censuses. (e.g. http://www.maxwellancestry.com/censu...useid=79914084)

              Just another thought to put into the pot.

              Christine
              Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

              Comment


              • #8
                Do the current Birdwizas pronounce it Birdweeza or Birdwyza?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                  Do the current Birdwizas pronounce it Birdweeza or Birdwyza?
                  Its Birdwyza. In the 1911 Scottish Census, he is from Normandy France. His first name is given as Augustus.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's hard to imagine how you'd achieve that pronunciation from a French name - except, perhaps, "aïse", to force the diphthong of the a and the i... though, I suppose that "oise" could come quite close.

                    Of course, if they're in Scotland, all the archive sources are separate from those in England and Wales.
                    2. 1901 census gives his age as 50 and born in France and states British Subject, can find no proof of this.
                    If you could find the naturalisation documents/record, they could be extremely useful.

                    I can't afford to trawl on your behalf ... having already had a go without any success! - but it could be worth experimenting here: http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/search

                    Christine
                    Last edited by Christine in Herts; 06-04-11, 11:16.
                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Further info

                      The 1911 Scottish census gives;
                      name: Agustus
                      age: 66
                      born: Normandy
                      nationality: French

                      Taking the above with the IGI info as being born in France on 12th November 1844 it should be easy to check out this specific date in Normandy?? Any dedicated sites for Normandy?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Have you looked at the reference library on this site? here's a link http://www.familytreeforum.com/content.php/451-France

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "Taking the above with the IGI info as being born in France on 12th November 1844 it should be easy to check out this specific date in Normandy??"

                          Unfortunately not, the old province of Normandy is made up of 5 modern departments

                          14 - Calvados
                          27 - Eure
                          50 - Manche
                          61 - Orne
                          76 - Seine-Maritime

                          Some have their records online some do not. Even those who do, without knowing the exact town or village your looking at, it would be a case of checking through the records of each village one by one, and there are hundreds so quite a task. As far as I know there is not a centralised register ( though my own experience is all pre 1800, so double check this in case I'm wrong)

                          There are some links here to Normandy sites which may help further.



                          Regards

                          Richard

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Richard, thanks for this link - it has inspired me to check up for my French ancestors whose name is de Coetlogon and I see that the village of Coetlogon has some parish records on line with more to come!
                            I need to go back before 1700 to find my lot as they came to UK after that.
                            Margaret

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No problem Margaret glad to be of help.

                              There is a very useful site and map here of which departments currently have their records on line and which records:



                              4 of Normandy's 5 departments are online, though one of those Calvados is a pay service. I think the remaining department Seine-Maritime is due to go online next year (free hopefully!)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Richard, thanks very much for the links & info. The Scottish Birdwisa's all said (except one who said Normandy) he came from Bordeaux. The 1911 census states Normandy and today we have discovered that there is a "Bordeaux" which was a medieval fuedal territory in Normandy, could be we are getting there!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There is a Bordeaux-Saint-Claire today in Normandy

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It occurs to me - playing around with sounds, again - the normal adjective for someone/something from Bordeaux is "bordelais(e)"; but I could imagine someone trying for an alternative, using "Bordeaux" as the root, and adding some kind of "ier/ière" ending. You could end up with something sounding very like Birdwisa... say, Bordeausier.

                                    another thought... even, Bordeau-aise.

                                    Christine
                                    Last edited by Christine in Herts; 12-04-11, 20:05.
                                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Thinking central Europe, rather than France, could the original name be Budweiser ?
                                      Yorkshire names: Brown, Weighell, Hudson, Hartley, Womersley, Laycock, Maude, Atkinson, Whittaker, Hammond, Hutton, Brook, Murgatroyd, Wright, Topham
                                      Warwickshire name: Hart
                                      German names: Peltz, Eichborn

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Chr1s View Post
                                        Thinking central Europe, rather than France, could the original name be Budweiser ?
                                        I thought about that at one time, but all the Birdwisa's say he came from France. Most said he was from Bordeaux but one thought Normandy. On the 1891 census it states France, on the 1911 census it states Normandy France. We have now discovered an old area in Normandy called Bordeaux, so may be they were all correct. He was a merchant seaman, probably why he is not on the 1901 census.

                                        Comment

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