Who is Philip Swain?

[stevie2006]

Just looking through some records today and came across a boy called Philip Swain age 5 on the 1881 census living with my great great great grandfather James Smith.

They are on board a canal grain boat in 1881 in Coventry Holy Trinity, Warwick

My ancestor James is listed as A boatman age 60 born Shenstone and the other family members are his wife Hannah age 59 born Wolverhapton, Hannah age 18 born West Bromwich and Solomon (my great great grandfather) listed as a boat boy born Heyford.

Anyone any idea who Philip might be ? I came across him before but never thought anything of it. His place of birth is given as Ellesmere Port Cheshire whilst my family don't seem to come from the same place. Just wanted to see if he is family or a complete stranger!!!!!

Thanks

Steven

[JudithM]

In 1891 Philip Swain, aged 15, born Liverpool, a boatman (barge) was living with his parents Thomas (also a boatman) and Matilda in Oldbury, Worcestershire.

[Chrissie Smiff]

What was your ancestor Hannah's name before marriage Steve?

[Chrissie Smiff]

How about this for a theory Steve? Could Mary Ann Smith be one of yours? She was born in Wolverhampton.

1891 The Thomas that Judith found - Father Thomas 'Mother' Matilda

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=WORRG12_2265_2267-0122&fn=Thomas&ln=Swain&st=r&ssrc=&pid=29700816

1881 - The same Thomas with wife Mary Anne (Philip staying with the Smiths)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=WARRG11_3084_3088-0690&fn=Thomas&ln=Swain&st=r&ssrc=&pid=22855570

1869 - Thomas Swain marries Mary Ann SMITH in Dudley
1883 - Mary Ann Swain dies in Cannock
1885 - Thomas Swain marries Matilda Wilkinson in West Bromwich

[Uncle John]

Nothing to do with how he fits in the family, but all the quoted birthplaces are canal locations, as you would expect.

[stevie2006]

You know Chrissie I think you might be a genius!!!!!

I checked what I had and came across a copy of the 1861 census in Tipton. There is James and Hannah with a 15 year old daughter Mary Ann!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So that would make Philip the grandson of James and Hannah and cousin of Solomon? Is that right?

Does anyone have a birth date and details for Philip - might be worth a shout? And marriage details for his parents unfortunatelt I no longer have Ancestry access? That would be fantastic and greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the census information Judith - is there anyway you could send me a copy of the image? I love to print them off for my file.

Uncle John I knew you would help with the canal side of things - thanks

Hannah the mother - her maiden name was Clarke and her and James married on 3rd March 1845 in Wolverhampton. Hannah's father only listed as W Clarke (not sure about initial as writing in bad) occupation boatman.

Many thanks folks

Steven

[Chrissie Smiff]

Hi Steven

PM sent and 1881 and 1891 census winging their way to you. I'm pleased that Judith and I were able to solve it for you.

If Solomon is the son of James and Hannah (it doesn't say on the census) then he would be the uncle of Philip and James and Hannah would be Philips grandparents.

I will have a look and see what I can find for a birth of Philip but it may have to be some time tomorrow as hubby is waiting for me to go to bed.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Just had a quick look and as he is listed as born Ellsmere Port Cheshire by his grandparents and Liverpool by his parents it's a bit difficult, but looking at the other births and constant movement my guess would be possibly this birth -
July-Sept 1875 - Philip Swain - West Bromwich 6b 796
DOn't hold me to that though, I have only search 1875 and 1876 so far.

p.s. Yes, checked 1874 to 1877 and it definitely looks likely.

[stevie2006]

Thanks Chrissie REALLY appreciate all your help with Philip and solving the mystery so quick

Thanks Judith for all your help MUCH appreciated

Steven

[stevie2006]

Hi I looked through my folders and came across the 1901 census with Philip living in Oldbury, Worcestershire with his wife Elizabeth and a 10 month old son Philip Thomas. HIs mother in law Elizabeth Jones age 59 is also there. Must have looked him up when I did have the Ancestry membership. Thats me - with all your help - having Philip in 1881, 1891 & 1901 - the 1881 census I only have the typed transcript from the IGI but at least I have all the necessary information

Thanks as always

Steven

[Chrissie Smiff]

Have e-mailed you some more Steven. Let us know if we can help any further.

[stevie2006]

Thanks Chrissie got all the information and a huge thanks from me

What I know now is that Philip Swain was the grandson of James and Mary Smith (my great great great grandparents) through their daughter Mary Ann. Mary Ann would have appeared to have died and the father remarried a Matilda. Philip Swain married an Elizabeth Jones in 1899 and had a son Philip Thomas as shown in the 1901 census. It also looks as though he was involved in boats and barges through his life like many of my English ancestors

Many thanks

Steven

[Chrissie Smiff]

You're very welcome Steven