Can't find entry of Marriage / Certificate

[crashmatt]

Hi, I have searched this site and although have found similar questions, I cannot find anything that may help with my enquiry. I'm not asking for anyone to do my work for me (Although it would be nice ), just be kind enough to help or point me in the right direction.
I am registered with Ancestry and am researching my Great Grandparents.
I know nothing about them, and have just recieved their marriage certificate.
I am trying to ascertain as much information about them, but know nothing. The only information I know is on the certificate.
If I may, this information is as follows:
Certificate of Samuel Leslie Nicholls - DOB 5/1/1921 born 46 Well Lane, Wednesfield.
Father - Thomas Henry Nicholls - Coal Miner (Hewer)
Mother - X = The mark of Emily Nicholls Late Horton formerly Smith.
I am (rightly or wrongly) possibly presuming her maiden name was Smith and possibly married a Horton then a Nicholls (If indeed they got married).
I am so lost, I'm relatively new to Geneology I've spent the last 3 days researching Ancestry, this and various forums.
I would be so grateful if anyone is able to offer any advice or help. Indeed if I find out I'm a local Earl or Landowner I'd be happy to share.
Thankyou and Kind Regards

Matt

[Elaine ..Spain]

Welcome to Family Tree Forum - hope we can help you!

Can you tell me where you found the birth date of Samuel Leslie Nicholls? You say you have just received a marriage certificate, but it looks as if the information you are giving us, i.e. date of birth and names of parents, are from a birth certificate.

If you have received a marriage certificate can you clarify who it is for and what it says.

[Elaine ..Spain]

This could be the marriage of Samuel's parents:

Marriages Dec 1909
HORTON Emily
MULLINDER Robert
NICHOLLS Thomas Henry
SHERRATT Clara
Wolverhampton 6b 1154

(source freeBMD)

[Elaine ..Spain]

Doing a free search of the 1911 census there appears to be this household:

NICHOLLS THOMAS H c1878
NICHOLLS EMILY c1879
HORTON EMILY c1901
HORTON MAY c1899
HORTON THOMAS H age 4 MONTHS

[Lin Fisher]

There is a marriage of Emily Smith to Arthur Horton in Dec 1897 (Freebmd)

Just going to see if I can find a death for Arthur.

Elaine - Thomas Horton aged 4 month in 1911. Who do you think he might be. If they married in 1909 a child of theirs should be a Nicholls.

Just trying to sort it out!!

[Lin Fisher]

There ia an Arthur Horton dying in Wolverhampton Jun 1908 aged 42. Could that be him?

[Elaine ..Spain]

Elaine - Thomas Horton aged 4 month in 1911. Who do you think he might be. If they married in 1909 a child of theirs should be a Nicholls.

Re the Thomas Horton in 1911 - worth checking the image - could well be Thomas Nicholls!

1901 census for the Hortons has been mistranscribed on Ancestry as Harton
Class: RG13; Piece: 2688; Folio: 149; Page: 4.

Arthur Harton c1865 Willenhall, Staffordshire
Emily Harton c 1877 Willenhall, Staffordshire
May Harton c 1899 Moseley, Staffordshire
Emily Harton c1900 Moseley, Staffordshire

living in Heath, Moseley, Staffordshire

[Elaine ..Spain]

There ia an Arthur Horton dying in Wolverhampton Jun 1908 aged 42. Could that be him?

Agewise that fits with the Arthur in the 1901 census.

[Elaine ..Spain]

I am (rightly or wrongly) possibly presuming her maiden name was Smith and possibly married a Horton then a Nicholls (If indeed they got married).
Matt

Yes, that seems correct!

I'm not asking for anyone to do my work for me (Although it would be nice ), just be kind enough to help or point me in the right direction.
Matt

Perhaps we had better stop there unless Matt wants some more help!
It's much more fun finding things yourself and hopefully with what we have found you should be able to start tracing the families back through the census .... but shout if you need some more help!

[crashmatt]

Welcome to Family Tree Forum - hope we can help you!

Can you tell me where you found the birth date of Samuel Leslie Nicholls? You say you have just received a marriage certificate, but it looks as if the information you are giving us, i.e. date of birth and names of parents, are from a birth certificate.

If you have received a marriage certificate can you clarify who it is for and what it says.

Oh dear, I feel so foolish - I'm sorry it was Samuel Leslie Nicholl's birth certificate. I did just post a 'Thankyou' at the bottom of this thread and hasn't yet appeared. There's so much information that my head spins sometimes!. Maybe time to clear it and re-start again tomorrow. Thankyou once again. It's very kind of you both
Regards
Matt

[Elaine ..Spain]

Don't worry Matt. When I read it through a second time I presumed you meant birth certificate!

I did just post a 'Thankyou' at the bottom of this thread and hasn't yet appeared.

Posts are instant so you probably didn't click on SUBMIT!

Don't hesitate to ask again if you need some more help.

[crashmatt]

Thankyou Elaine & Lin both for your invaluble help. I hope you don't mind me asking another question. As I said I'm a paying member of Ancestry, and even with the information that you kindly supplied, I am still struggling to find the records (Even though I'm sure I'm doing it right). Is it Ancestry? - is it any good or should I be researching another/various other sites?. The last four days I have found my research to be so frustrating. You both amazed me with the ease in which you found the information - Is there any advice you are able to offer or links on this Forum (WHich I have thouroughly enjoyed and amazed at peoples willingness to help).
Thankyou again
Matt

[Lin Fisher]

Matt

I was just using Freebmd but it should be on ancestry. The 1901 census that Elaine found was mis-transcribed so you have to sometimes look a bit further afield.

1911 census isn't on Ancestry yet but on FMP or pay to view.

Just ask if you need any more help

[Christine in Herts]

Hi, Matt. A belated welcome to FTF!

The finding-problems you seem to be experiencing seem like the ones most of us experience at the outset. They arise mainly from forgetting that the online info is only as accurate as the ability (and carefulness) of the transcribers and the knowledge and truthfulness of those who supplied the information originally. And, of course, the extent of the coverage of the transcriptions!

You can often find more hits by putting in less info. Then you can often spot the mistranscriptions and errors. Wildcards can be useful for names which have multiple spellings. Sometimes whole families get given the surname of their neighbours through the carelessness of the scribe at one or other stage. People lied about themselves for personal advantage or because of social pressure. People changed their surnames, and their first names for any number of reasons. Some false info was through ignorance or misunderstanding.

As you get more practice, you'll get used to finding your way around these barriers. Having said that, Elaine...Spain is the star for finding names in censuses when the rest of us have given up!

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

And I forgot to expand on the other problem...

some names will be missing - especially from the free databases - because they haven't completed the transcription process yet. They just put up online as much as they can, as soon as it's ready. Most such sites have a "coverage" page where you can check to see how far they've got.

Christine

[crashmatt]

Hi Christine. Thankyou for your welcome, and your tips. Certainly without Elaine's and Lins help has helped me massively. I've been looking at the Find My Past site and seems to be far easier to navigate for a newbie like myself than Ancestry.co.uk and I think the information seems better there. . I downloaded the 1911 census and was lovely to actually see my G Granfathers own handwriting. Mind you it's a little expensive for my liking!. I'm picking up hints and tips all the time (Like cross referencing districts when looking at marriages - never thought of that!) and scouring this group. I've ordered the marriage certificate today of Samuel & Emily, so hope this will unlock a little more of my past. Thankyou again.

[crashmatt]

Thankyou!. One more then I promise I will dissapear , I have a lot of Date of Death's omitted. What is the best way to look for these. Some are quite easy to work out (Ie missing from Census), but how, for example could I find out when say Thomas Henry Nicholls passed away. Just use the Death Search?. I just worry I will get the wrong one as I have Smiths & Jones's in my family :(

[Elaine ..Spain]

Matt, don't forget with both Findmypast and Ancestry you can take out a 14 day free sub which would give you a chance to compare them and see which is better for your needs. Just make sure you cancel before the 14 day period expires or else they will start charging you.

They both have the census and BMD information, although FMP does have the complete 1911 census whereas Ancestry only has the enumerator books.
If you have London ancestors then I would say Ancestry is a must as they have a lot of parish records from the London Metropolitan Archives. Findmypast are also adding parish registers and if they have covered a county or counties that you are researching then you will find them helpful.
Both have military records, although from different time periods.

It's a matter of thinking about what sort of thing you need - and then seeing what each of them can offer. ;)

There are discounts to be had on both sites - so you shouldn't have to pay full price for a subscription!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Thankyou!. One more then I promise I will dissapear , I have a lot of Date of Death's omitted. What is the best way to look for these. Some are quite easy to work out (Ie missing from Census), but how, for example could I find out when say Thomas Henry Nicholls passed away. Just use the Death Search?. I just worry I will get the wrong one as I have Smiths & Jones's in my family :(

You really need to use the death search on Ancestry. After 1866 the age at death was given, but remember you cannot rely on this because the informant may have got it wrong - but it's a useful guideline. After 1969 dates of birth were given on death registrations.
If you have a common name then it's not always easy and there is a lot of guess work involved until you get the right one. If you are buying certificates it is sometimes worth buying that of the spouse first (if that one is easier to find) as it will state "wife of ....." or "widow of ....." so you know whether to look before or after that date for the other one.

... and there is no need to disappear - if you have any other questions then ask away!

[Christine in Herts]

Has Ancestry sorted out their faulty county-links for the later registrations? I recall that they obviously hadn't programmed in the change of the volume-references in the 1940s (or thereabouts). The result was that you'd get Hampshire towns purporting to be in Yorkshire, or something. It meant that searching on the County could lose you the hits you needed. There was some other problem, too... was it that you could no longer include Quarters after registrations started ot be recognised by the month?

FMP have said that they're working on the deaths index at the moment. Their births and marriages index transcriptions are pretty good.

Christine