Help with 2 sailings Northumberland to USA, please.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Can anyone find the sailings for these two families, please?

William P Hogan (born 1856) wife Mary Jane (born 1861)
children Catherine & Daniel (bp Blyth, Northumberland 1880 & 1882)
Next known child Robert, born West Virginia Jan 1885

So, sailed post Apr 1882 - Jan 1885

Also John Carroll (born 1851 Ireland) wife Elizabeth (sister of Mary Jane above, born 1853)
2 children born Co Durham 1878 &1880; family in Engand in 1881 census.
A son born West Virginia 1888

(In 1881 the Hogans & the Carrolls lived next door to each other in Gateshead; I don't know if they sailed off together, or if the Hogans went first.)

Grateful for any help.

Jay

[Mary from Italy]

Haven't found the Hogans on a passenger list yet, but the 1900 census gives their year of immigration as 1882.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thankyou Mary

Jay

[Mary from Italy]

I'm pretty sure I've found the Carrolls on the 1900 census (with children Owen and Anna born in England, others born in Pennsylvania), but it says they emigrated in 1879, although Anna was born in England in Feb. 1881. Maybe they were just back there for a visit when she was born? She's presumably the Susanna on the 1881 census.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

That's very interesting, Mary.
Have looked again at the 1881 census, and it does seem that they are sharing a house, even though they are recorded as 2 separate establishments.

I have a birth registration for Susannah Carroll in June qtr 1880, Chester le St Reg Dist - this fits with 1881 census - aged 8m & born Birtley. Birtley is in the Chester L St reg dist.
I haven't found a birth reg for Anna - according to a tree on Ancestry, she was Anna Gertrude, born Eng 1884.
Curiouser & curiouser! I can't see coalminers popping backwards and forwards across the ocean ??

I must confess I haven't got any certificates for this line - I've only just discovered them & they are rather distant. However, I am hoping they are connected to my Irish gt-gdmother, who's been a sticking point for over 20 yrs!

Jay

[Mary from Italy]

I see John Carroll says in 1900 that he's been naturalised, and all the family say they've been in the US for 19 years, which would fit with a return in 1881.

Just going to eat, but I can look at the later censuses and send you the images if you don't have them. PM me your e-mail address if you'd like them.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

pm sent.

[Darksecretz]

do you think it might have something to do with the gold rush Jay?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Hi Julie,

Thanks for your interest.
I don't think so - I believe the gold rush was in California/Arizona, and also Alaska?
This lot were coalmining in Pennsylvania & Ohio. From the info Mary has sent me, it looks as if the next generation were in more skilled employment. I do love it when my "poor" grasp opportunity and take a step up the ladder.

Jay

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Seems like William P Hogan had a brush with the law in 1882 (according to a tree on Ancestry) - perhaps that why he left.

Jay

[Mary from Italy]

Oh yes, I wonder what the story was behind that? I've found it in the Ancestry Criminal Records database.

John Gardner, Andrew Carey, Robert Hogan, William Hogan and Francis McCabe were all acquitted of unlawful wounding at the Easter Quarter Sessions in Morpeth on 4/4/1882. Their names appear consecutively, so they may all have been involved in the same case.

[Mary from Italy]

I've just found a short newspaper report of the case, but it gives hardly any details.

John Gardner (27), labourer, Andrew Cary (23), miner, Robert Hyson (23), Wm Hyson (25), and Francis McCabe (38), labourer, were charged with having, on the 26th of February, at Cowpen village, wounded and inflicted grievous bodily harm upon Thomas Early, the younger. - Mr Stevenson for the prosecution; and Mr Milvain for the prisoners. - Not guilty.
The Newcastle Courant, Friday, April 7, 1882

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thankyou for that Mary - my "friend" Andrew Carey (William's brother in law) popping up again!

I had seen earlier, on a different Ancestry tree, that he also had been in bother, and wondered if that was when he left his wife and children. Her last Carey child was born in 1885; in 1891 she & her 3 children lived with her brother, but she was recorded as head of house, and married. She began her second family in 1893, but I don't think there was ever a marriage.
Hmmm - perhaps Andrew Carey crossed the pond as well!!!!

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

It gets worse - post 11.
Robert Hogan, William P Hogan's younger brother. In 1881 he was a coal miner, single and lived in Cowpen Northumberland with his married sister. I've spent most of the afternoon looking for him but couldn't find him.

I think I may need to plan a Spring break to visit to the Northumberland Record Office.

Jay

[Mary from Italy]

Had you noticed there was a James Carey, nephew, living with the Hogans in 1900?

[Mary from Italy]

Robert's in Pennsylvania in 1900 with a wife, 5 children and 2 stepchildren, still working as a coal miner. Says he emigrated in 1883.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thankyou Mary. Was just about to post the following when I saw your response.

Have found a newspaper report about the death of Robert in Pennsylvania in 1910. He came to a tragic end, falling from a swinging bridge (ropes at the sides) resulting in a double fracture of the sKull.

Yes, I've been trying to work out nephew James - allegedly born England October 1882, English mother, father born in Ohio, emigrated 1883.
Robert's children are named in the newspaper article - there is no James.

The only other Carey boy was Andrew - however, there is sister Isabel, single in 1881, and unaccountable after that. Can't find her in later census or a definite marriage.
I'm wondering if James was her son, born 1882, she emigrated with him in 1883 and then married a man from Ohio, which could account for an alleged Ohio "father".

They were Northumbrian miners of Irish extraction and went to work in the American coalfields. I really cannot see them having the funds to go back & forth. I suspect they couldn't all read & write & so the forms were completed for them, hence mistakes & inaccuracies.

This makes such a change from my honest, law-abiding and hard working ag labs - who were lovely, but have left no paper trail behind.

Thankyou for your continued input, Mary

Jay