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Englishman in a Scottish regiment ? Uh ?

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  • Englishman in a Scottish regiment ? Uh ?

    I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this direct ancestor of mine.
    the following are facts stated in his diary in his own hand.

    Served in Malta
    His sister reports that he was in the battle of tel el kebir in Eygpt.
    He is listed as corporal John Smith 647 1st/1 Royal Scots
    He comments of an article dated 1879 in the dumfries and galloway times (presumably back in barracks after Malta)
    he married annie cane in 1884 in liverpool

    my cousin has dismissed ideas that he was in the cameron highlanders as a private
    i cannot see that the royal scots were actually at tel el kebir

    Why was he in a scottish regiment ?...this was the top regiment after the guards elite regiments.
    why was he not in the lancashire fusiliers or some such?
    his mother and father were born in ireland but his other siblings were all born liverpool and in the 1881 census they are living at 25 blucher street. John is absent 1881 and presumably in scotland?

  • #2
    They did swap around sherlock. I had OH's GGF in the Welsh guards but he was a sergeant in the Scots Guards in London when he left the army. I seem to remember querying it at the time with the chap who had looked up the records for me in London - and he said that quite often people would be seconded into another regiment if they had specialist skills.

    He became a railway porter at Victoria Station after he left the army. I thought that must have been a real come down but apparently it was a sought after position and ex army were chosen for the posts - spose when you think about it, thats why the railways ran like clockwork then.
    Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 06-02-11, 13:03.

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    • #3
      but would you go down a rank? ...he was a scribe -later a lawyers clerk after the army.....would you go from corporal in the royal scots to a private in the cameron highlanders perhaps?

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      • #4
        he was a pte in G company 1st/1 Royal Scots
        he was cpl in E company 1st/1 Royal Scots

        there is no reference to any other regiment in the diary by his hand - his sister has added later that he was injured in el tel kebir whatsit but I cannot see the royal scots as a regiment there according to an article on the national archives.

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        • #5
          Do you have his regimental number - have you found a Medal Card for him?
          Elaine







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          • #6
            647 is the number elaine -my cousin in oz reckons there must be records for him somewhere -it was mooted he sustained an injury in Egypt

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            • #7
              Hmm, well, that sounds a bit odd doesnt it. When I first contacted the Scottish guards they actually gave me info on the wrong man and I asked them the same question about losing rank and then realised they had sent me the wrong bloke (Thomas Jenkins, pretty common name . Kevin Asplin followed it all through for me at Kew and got the correct records. Wonderful stuff, even including a report of the injuries he had received whilst vaulting a horse in the gym at Westminster Barracks

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sherlockslovechild View Post
                647 is the number elaine -my cousin in oz reckons there must be records for him somewhere -it was mooted he sustained an injury in Egypt
                I would have thought that a MIC would be available on the National Archives - but I cannot see one with that number. Plenty of John Smiths in the Royal Scots but not with that reg. no.
                Elaine







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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sherlockslovechild View Post
                  647 is the number elaine -my cousin in oz reckons there must be records for him somewhere -it was mooted he sustained an injury in Egypt
                  According to the following website, that number would have been issued to someone who joined the 1st Royal Scots c1882
                  A reference resource for regimental numbers in use in the British Army 1881-1918


                  I wonder if you have just part of the regimental number?
                  Elaine







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                  • #10
                    he has written

                    647 pte j smith
                    1/1st royal scots
                    grand polynesia
                    malta

                    elsewhere he has written corporal at another time

                    its possible he may have been on the verge of leaving c 1881 elaine with reference to that link

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                    • #11
                      Sorry, my fault - thought we were referring to WW1!
                      Elaine







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                      • #12
                        When and where was he born?
                        Have you searched the military records on FMP?
                        Elaine







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                        • #13
                          born 1857 - britton ferry glamorgan wales according to 1901 census west derby l'pool listed as legal clerk -wife annie- harold and matilda are children

                          mother and father born ireland
                          siblings born liverpool - example matthew born 1862 was a younger brother born liverpool
                          very probable that mother and father moved from south wales to liverpool late 1850's ,early 1860's -possible that peter the father was military.

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                          • #14
                            Do you have his attestation and discharge papers which are available from FMP?
                            Elaine







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                            • #15
                              pmsl - no - are the records on that site complete ? - looking for a john smith could end up being a nightmare lol -

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                              • #16
                                There are military records for a John Smith born 1857 Brittan Perry in find my past:

                                Age at attestation: 19 years 1 months
                                Attestation date: 10 April 1876
                                Attestation corps: 62ND BRIGADE
                                Attestation soldier number: 647

                                Let me know if you would like the seven images emailed to you.
                                Joy

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                                • #17
                                  thats the fella -indeed he was demoted and was only 5ft 5 and 10st -he had to serve out his 12 years before he was able to resume life as a clerk - bizarrely in one of his history documents he states his wife and year of marriage which i knew already but someone has put a red line through it ?

                                  elaine has already posted me the link and ive downloaded the images - and a lot of them too !! Thanks for looking though.
                                  Last edited by Sherlockslovechild; 06-02-11, 14:27.

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                                  • #18
                                    The article will be viewable in the UK newspapers for that year, do you have a library card that covers it
                                    If not I can tell you how to get one.

                                    Edna

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                                    • #19
                                      its amazing how genealogy has changed and advanced in the last few years - ive had a couple of years rest after frantic people searching and now all i see is the genealogist and ancestry taking over the universe - charges for this ,charges for that -they are all on a massive gravy train lol.....whats a library card edna ?- looks like ive been out of the loop too long lol...what happened to the good old index bmd pages viewable for free ?

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                                      • #20
                                        The Gale Newspapers are 19th Centuary newspapers covering All of the UK newspapers and are viewable on line and searchable, it takes a bit of getting used to and lots of interesting finds including Military Manouvers.
                                        http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries/ join on here and wait for your card to arrive in the post then get searching.

                                        Edna

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