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JAMES HATCH again - sorry but views needed!!!!!

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  • JAMES HATCH again - sorry but views needed!!!!!

    JAMES HATCH born about 1863/64
    ALL of the JAMES HATCH born between 1862 – 1865 checked and are not him (checked through census and eliminated if they are on 1891 or 1901 as my James is accounted for on those dates)

    The census I know for sure my great grandfather is on are:
    1891: On census James is shown at 106 Norman Road, Islington. - Labourer
    1901: On census James is shown at 116, Hornsey Road, Islington, shows him born in Holloway - Labourer

    UNSURE if below is him but probably is as all details fit.
    1871 Census, Islington District 64a, Civil Parish St Mary Islington, Municipal Ward – Highbury, Ecc Ward St Barnabas, Parliamentary- Finsbury: 6 Litchfield Terrace (part of Queens Road, now Queensland Road) details:

    Residents at 6 Leichfield (Litchfield ) Terrace in 1871

    Thomas Myers aged 42 born abt 1829 Head St Neots, Hunts
    William Norman aged 10 born abt 1861 Visitor Heaton, Beds
    James Hatch aged 7 born abt 1863 Visitor Islington, Middx
    Agnes King aged 64 born abt 1807 Nurse/widow Devon, South Molton
    George King aged 17 born abt 1854 Emery Grinder Brighton, Sussex
    Emma Ling (? King) aged 25 born abt 1846 Daughter Heaton, Beds
    George Ling (? King) aged 1 born abt 1871 Grandson Islington, Middx

    I have checked the whole of the Census folios for this area for 1871 to see if James’s parents have been transcribed wrongly but there are no traces of any other Hatch’s (James, his father) that match this young James Hatch. Of course, the entry in the 1871 census may not be my James and may just be a coincidence. I have tried to find a link between the other residents but have been unable to find one. Who was he visiting???

    1. James married Mary Ann Henderson and witnesses on their wedding certificate include an Ann PRESS. Tracing through I have found an ANN PRESS who was ANN HATCH (until she married). HER father is Thomas Hatch and I can find no evidence of a brother James. Walter Press’s father is a James Press. Could James be a brother or cousin to ANN PRESS?
    2. One other option is also available. I know that often in families children are named one thing then use different name so I searched for another HATCH who may fit the bill. I have a JOSEPH JAMES HATCH born 1863, baptised Holloway, (his father is also Joseph James Hatch). Joseph James’s mother is AMELIA (Thorn). My JAMES has a daughter named Charlotte Amelia – co-incidence? On her baptism certificate James’s occupation is shown as a Plasterer’s Labourer. Joseph James SNR is shown as a plasterer. See census details that follow:
    1871 Joseph James SNR + Amelia on census but no child(ren) shown with them.
    1881: parents living Chelsea, father is a plasterer, father born 1832, mother 1827, she dies 1889, Chelsea
    NO trace of any marriage for Joseph James Jnr (b.1863 ) and also no trace of any death.
    So, with the two candidates, these are the census & who appears on them:
    1871 James YES, Joseph James NO
    1881 James No, Joseph James YES
    1991 James YES, Joseph James NO
    1901 James YES, Joseph James NO

    My James dies in 1909. I can find no death for Joseph James b 1863 but there are a few Joseph Hatch deaths who were born earlier or later.

    WHAT TO DO NEXT??????

  • #2
    For the 1871 census the status of visitor for James Hatch relates to the head of the household who is Thomas Myers. It could be that James was a relative of sorts but too difficult to explain for the purposes of the census.
    Margaret

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    • #3
      Any idea who the Norman boy visiting is? Born Heaton, like the King/Ling girl

      The baptism you talk of: As the boy has the same name as the father, it was common to use the middle name to avoid confusion. So a good bet Id have thought. The address given on the baptism is 4 Wellington Road - does that appear anywhere else?

      Joseph James Hatch

      7 Jun 1863 Joseph James Hatch,
      Amelia Hatch West Holloway St Luke Islington
      Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 04-02-11, 15:41.

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      • #4
        Actually having looked at the census image there are 2 separate households in the property:-
        1.Thomas Myers head, daughter Emma King, grandson George King and visitor William Norman.

        2.Agnes King head, George King son and James Hatch visitor.

        James is therefore a visitor of Agnes not Thomas.

        I would think Agnes King is mother in law to Emma.
        Margaret

        PS anther look at census shows it's def Agnes King and Emma Ling - so not related as suggested
        Last edited by margaretmarch; 04-02-11, 16:41.

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        • #5
          I wondered if it were two households muddled too, with the boy being born same place as the Emma. But I was wondering if the Meyers chap was the red herring here. Ill have to look at the image Should have done that in the first place. Its the places born that is making it a bit confusing though.

          I have to shoot now - but definitely two households - first one being

          Thomas Myers 42
          Emma Ling 25
          George Ling 1
          William Norman 10

          And Id say it is LING not King.
          Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 04-02-11, 15:59.

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          • #6
            The Myers chap is father to Emma King/Ling and she has a son George. I think we need to look for Thomas Myers in earlier censuses to see who his other children were and if the visitors' names feature at all in any marriages.
            Margaret

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            • #7
              Here's Thomas Myers with Emma and other children in 1861 RG9; Piece: 984; Folio: 121; Page: 28; (mis-transcribed as Myres). There's at least one other daughter Lizzie so scope there for another surname to come in for a child.
              Margaret

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              • #8
                Here's the family with mother too in 1851 HO107; Piece: 1750; Folio: 393; Page: 32; name here is definitely 'Myres' but it's the same family. Probably one of those names that can be spelt either way!
                Margaret

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                • #9
                  I've amended my post above to say that the the 2nd household at the address in 1871 is Agnes King and I now think she is entirely separate from Thomas Myers so looking at Agnes and her family might be the answer.
                  Margaret

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                  • #10
                    Thats my thought too.

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