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Unravelling Joseph

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  • Unravelling Joseph

    Just wondering if someone could take a look at this...problems seeing the wood for the trees & see if I'm missing something obvious.

    Some of you will probably have painful memories of my thread where I was trying to find out why my gggg grandfather, Lyon Asher in Nottingham, named his first child Alfred, when all the other children had "very Jewish" names.

    I think I may have found a link worth exploring.

    Lyon's second son was Joseph Asher. I have him as born in Nottingham in 1821 & marrying Eliza Peters in Radford, Nottingham in 1855. I think they were living in St Mary's, Hampshire in 1871 (his birth year would be 1823 from those details) & in 1881, they're living in Southampton, St Mary's Hants. He died in 1885 in Southampton.

    Nottingham to Southampton seems rather unlikely but someone on Ancestry has a tree with an Alfred Asher born c 1800 in Southampton....so maybe that is the family connection. Even if the Joseph down in Southampton is not "mine" it does suggest a possible connection between Alfred/Southampton/the Nottingham Ashers.

    The crucial point, really, is whether it was my Joseph Asher who married Eliza Peters at Radford, Nottm, in 1855. I don't want to cause anyone a lot of work (as if !), but maybe someone would be kind enough to have a quick shuftie & see if I've missed anything obvious.

    Thanks

  • #2
    I think the Joseph Asher living in Hampshire is not the right one. His mother in law living with them is a Mary Ann Ewen. Marriage 1850 Mar qtr Southampton Joseph Asher & poss Eliza Ewen.
    Moggie

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    • #3
      Thanks maudarby (Maggie)

      Comment


      • #4
        I cant see anything jumping out other than what you have already found, sorry..
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks very much. It's the wrong Joseph, then.....but it still ties in the Nottingham Ashers with Southampton & Southampton with an Alfred Asher. Off to try & find out who this Joseph Asher was. (yes, I am going crazy, but it's throwing it down & I'm waiting with shopping because I don't want to get the bread wet....any excuse)

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          • #6
            Mmmm.....the only other Joseph Asher I can find from Notts around this time was baptised in 1829 (my Joseph was baptised in 1822)....a bit late. Maybe the one born in 1829 was the one who married Eliza Peters at Radford & my Joseph got married in Southampton.

            Sorry....thinking aloud. Guess the only way to find out is to order the Southampton marriage cert ? Do I need a ref no to order it ? Where do I find that, please ?

            Comment


            • #7
              you've obviously found the marriage details, on freebmd? just use the reference from there to get the cert.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi
                Not sure how you "paired up" Joseph Asher & Eliza Peters. They both married in the Dec qtr 1855 Radford but his ref no is 7b 261 & hers is 7b 299 so they didn't marry each other. The ref no for the 1850 marriage is Joseph Asher & Eliza Ewen district Southampton Folio 7 Page 260.
                Moggie

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                • #9
                  Thanks Maggie & kyle....sorry for the blunders

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't see why the Joseph who is married to Eliza and living in Southampton can't be the one you want. Really, the only thing that has been established here is that you have the wrong marriage. The marriage which Moggie found (possible spouse Eliza Ewan) looks a good bet to me, and the age of the Joseph in Southampton is about right to be yours. The Joseph born in 1829 was unmarried and with his parents in 1851, and seems to have later married Ann somebody.

                    scuda
                    Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

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                    • #11
                      Thanks very much scuda....definitely worth ordering the marriage cert. The children of the Joseph in Southampton don't tie up very well with his parents/brothers & sisters, but he may have been following the Jewish tradition of not naming them after living relatives (he had Jewish roots & I haven't got back further than his parents) Anyway, it will increase my knowledge of the Nottm Ashers & how they were interrelated

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                        I think the Joseph Asher living in Hampshire is not the right one. His mother in law living with them is a Mary Ann Ewen. Marriage 1850 Mar qtr Southampton Joseph Asher & poss Eliza Ewen.
                        Moggie
                        so this is the right marriage then?? maybe Joseph went to see relatives and then fell in love with Eliza?
                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          there is a Joseph Asher marrying in Nottm in 1855 BUT its to an ANN BARNETT, 27th 12 1855 at St. Paul, Hyson Green
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Marriage:

                            Name: Joseph Asher
                            Year of Registration: 1850
                            Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
                            District: Southampton
                            County: Hampshire
                            Volume: 7
                            Page: 260
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              there is a Joseph Asher marrying in Nottm in 1855 BUT its to an ANN BARNETT, 27th 12 1855 at St. Paul, Hyson Green
                              This fits with the Joseph born 1829.

                              scuda
                              Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by scuda View Post
                                This fits with the Joseph born 1829.

                                scuda
                                Think we have to be careful here, I cant see ANY Joseph Asher with a wife Ann in Nottm on the census, maybe the Joseph wasnt born in Nottm but just married there?

                                Strikes me that whoever it is that has that tree has made an awful lot of assumptions and hasnt bothered with the certs...
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I cant see ANY Joseph Asher with a wife Ann in Nottm on the census
                                  I suspect they are in Christchurch, Surrey in 1861, with son Joseph aged 4. All three born Nottingham.

                                  scuda

                                  PS Julie, I'm not looking at any tree, so I don't know how my ideas compare, I'm just searching as I normally would.
                                  Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Mmmm......yes, Julie. Worth ordering, anyway, because the Joseph Asher on the census in Southampton says he was born in Nottingham.

                                    Something else weird has happened. I found the person with the tree (think it was for a Finlay family) who had the unsourced birth of an Alfred Asher in Southampton in 1800 a week or so ago. I emailed & tried to look into it. No reply (well, they had been offline for more than 6 months) I've just checked again....& it's gone ! As a newbie to Ancestry, can it be a bit inconsistent in what it throws up or do you think they've removed it ?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      By the way, in case you haven't found Joseph & Eliza in 1861, their surname is transcribed as Fischer on Anc. I don't think it's a transcription error, it's written that way. Does the name of their son Guildford (Guilford in the census) mean anything in your Asher family? It looks like a surname being used as a first name, and might help to make a connection.

                                      scuda

                                      PS To be honest if I was researching this family I wouldn't be having many doubts that this Joseph is the right one. But then, I probably wouldn't have looked at on-line trees until I'd explored every possible avenue first - they can be very distracting!!
                                      Last edited by scuda; 03-02-11, 14:54.
                                      Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        How sure are you that the family was Jewish? Lyon age 70 was buried on 16th August 1860 at Nottingham St Mary & poss Elizabeth, his wife age 79 on 4th Feb 1869, same church. There were 16 Asher burials there, the earliest 1808 the last in 1875. Baptism for the 1829 Joseph on the 8th Sept at the same church, parents Joseph & Margaret
                                        Clare St occ labourer.
                                        Moggie

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