Non-Conformist research

[james84]

Iv'e recently got some help with my research and it has led to what Iv'e been told is a non-conformist church, hench the reason why I couldnt find much more info on Ancestry.com.au.
The Church is, Spa Fields, Lady Huntingtongs, Clerkenwell.
I was told that this tells me something about the family's past?? but I'm not sure what to make of it. There was also baptism/Christenings/Marriages at, Duncan Street Irvingite church. Which I was also told was interesting aswell.
This is all based in the early 1800's and late 1700's.
Can anyone give me any direction or insight as to why this is important ? Also if it's any help the family name is Mortyn.

kindest regards
James

[Olde Crone Holden]

James

The fact that your ancestors were nonconformist is an important clue to the type of people they were. At that time (late 1700s early 1800s) it was difficuklt to be anythng other than main stream C of E and the fact that they worshipped independently tells you that they did not need the approval of the established church for their living.

Thje two churches are however, completely different and it is rather an odd progression if it is the same family, from Huntingdons to Irvingite.

The Countess of Huntingdon Connexion is/was a Methodist branch of the C of E. The Irvingite church is a Catholic apostolic church. Google either to find out more about their individual beliefs and practices.

OC

[Harrys mum]

James.....My husband's family were mostly non-cons and ranged from Baptist to Catholic so it's not impossible. They were wealthy so could afford to belong to any church (or a few if it suited their means...lol).

There is the non-parochial register, however I found it extremely expensive to download a lot of records so bought a sub to The Genealogist which has them. I have saved well over 200 pounds that way. Of course you have to need a few to do that. Also the non-con records often tell you more than the C of E PRs and I have the most beautiful birth certificates from the 1700s.

[Harrys mum]

James.......are you sure those two Mortyns are the same family. Henry's child is baptised Irvingate, but i can't find Henry's baptism or birth at Spa Fields.

Just wondering??

[Darksecretz]

the new familysearch website does have some non-con records though the site is still adding new records as it is shifting its records from one site (the old LDS site & Hugh Wallis) to its new home. www.familysearch.org

[Harrys mum]

They have quite a few Julie, but can you get the originals there????

If I wasn't so bone lazy, I'd look myself, wouldn't I?? lol

[Darksecretz]

No Libby, AFAIK they are only trancriptions, I do know that by using BMDRegisters though that you get the originals.. (as thats from the Genealogist site isnt it?) I have used BMDReg to find some of mine, but as you say the search is abit vague and works out expensive.

[Harrys mum]

That's why I bought the sub Julie. It works out a lot cheaper if you have a few and want the originals. I've got them with three generations and all the witnesses....much better than post 1837....lol

[Darksecretz]

I was really suprised when I found my gt x 2 grandad on it.. but I didnt find much else really, am still no nearer to where his parents married or if he had any siblings, though I think that he 'might' have a brother and sister, but I need to goto leicester to chase this up!!

[james84]

Funny you say that, that you cant find Henry's baptism, all his brothers and sisters are at spa fields and he happens to be where my research has hit a brick wall. I'm not 100% certain that it is his brothers and sister but other documents point to this. I'm a little stuck on what approach to take next. I have a fair bit of info but it's all in a bit of shambles, I really need to sort out whatI have and what I need to make any progression. I have looked all over the Middlesex/Clerkenwell area and cant find Henry Baptism anywhere. I know he was born around 1800-1805, going by the census records he was born in 1803 and in the 1841 census it has him stating he was born in the county of middlesex.
His son Henry Samual was baptised at St James clerkenwell in 1826
second son Charles George Baptised at St James as well in 1828
Third son Samual George baptised at St James in 1830
Fourth so Thomas william, i havent got that record but at a guess it would be at st james as well.

Henry senior married in 1825 at St Marry's middlesex, clerkenwell.
1841 census has him in St James but in 1851 his registered at Ecclesiastical parish of St Phillip Islington.
He died in 1853
There dosnt seem to be any records pre 1820ish on ancestry.com but when I look on rootsweb I get a few and most of them are at spa fields.
So as I stated before I'm still abit lost as to where to go from here. I'm open to sugestions though. If you need more info let me know. If you cant help or suggest anything that ok, thanks for reading

cheers
james

[Caroline]

That's why I bought the sub Julie. It works out a lot cheaper if you have a few and want the originals. I've got them with three generations and all the witnesses....much better than post 1837....lol

It also includes PCC wills, so a fortune saved there too!!

[Harrys mum]

James.......that makes me wonder even more if this is either two different families or at least two branches.
If your line is William Thomas (or Thomas William....sorry it's back a page now) and his parents are Henry and Sarah??? Have you found their marriage at all??

What have you got that ties Henry's family to the Spa Fields family??? I didn't look at different spellings either so could well be Morten, Mortin etc.

[Olde Crone Holden]

James

Can you get to an LDS family history centre? If so, they have the film of the complete records of the Spa Fields chapel (that is1778-1849) which should enable you to do some tree work.

I still think it very odd for one family to start with a strict Methodist church with a right miserable attitude to life (LOL) and then to go to the Catholic Apostolic church - although perhaps they felt in need of cheering up?!

OC

[Harrys mum]

Nice one OC.................but I can't connect the Catholic family to the Methodist family.

Maybe James can.

[james84]

I'll post a few ref's that are leading me to think the Mortyn's at Spa fields are the same Mortyn's at St James, St Marys, St Andrews and most of the other records that have been registered around the Clerkenwell area.


Ellen Frances Mortyn
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

birth:

13 Mar 1839

residence:

London, England

parents:

George William Mortyn, Mary Ellen

record title:

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

name:

Ellen Frances Mortyn

gender:

Female

baptism/christening date:

25 Sep 1839

baptism/christening place:

DUNCAN STREET IRVINGITE,ISLINGTON,LONDON,ENGLAND

birth date:

13 Mar 1839

father's name:

George William Mortyn

mother's name:

Mary Ellen

indexing project (batch) number:

C09727-1

system origin:

England-ODM

source film number:

825319


Her father was Christened at spa fields. I’m almost certain that George William is Henrys Mortyn’s brother.

Thomas William Mortyn
England and Wales, Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)

parents:

Henry Mortyn, Sarah Mortyn

record title:

England and Wales, Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)

name:

Thomas William Mortyn

event type:

Baptism

christening date:

15 Aug 1838

christening place:

Islington Green, London

father's name:

Henry Mortyn

mother's name:

Sarah Mortyn

record set:

RG4_4531


While this isn’t at Spa Fields it has still come up under the non-conformist records on familysearch.org
Thomas William was they’re last child from what I can find. In my last post I said I couldn’t find Thomas’s baptism record at St James where his other brothers were baptised at, well I guess I’ve found it here. I’m still not sure what all this is telling me.


There was no Thomas MORTYN in the aforementioned baptism records. However, I did find a Thomas MORTON of the correct age, with parents John MORTON and Frances:
THOS. MORTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 01 MAR 1795 Spa Fields Lady Huntingdons, Clerkenwell, London, England
I found the marriage of a Thomas MORTYN to a Frances DANDO at St Andrew Holborn. This was witnessed by a James Mortyn and an Elizabeth Mortyn [Source Citation: Guildhall, St Andrew Holborn, Register of marriages, 1822 - 1827, P69/AND2/A/01/Ms 6672/5]. Could this be James the perfumer and his wife, Elizabeth (nee ROGERS)?
Name: Thomas Mortyn Spouse Name: Frances Dando Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 10 Apr 1825 Parish: St Andrew Holborn County: London Borough: City of London

After seeing the above record which I believe is Henry brother is what makes me think I’m dealing with the same family. They don’t appear to stick to one particular church. Maybe I’m not reading between the lines or something.

[Harrys mum]

Oooh Thanks James.

I must admit I didn't go into too much detail with my search....Blame late last nigth and early this morning. I'll look at that in more detail today and see if anything pops up.

As I said....my lot did a lot of church skipping as well, so it's not unheard of. One lot actually had all their children baptised C of E. Most of those children married Baptists.......except for the couple who were in France studying to be Catholic priests.....lol. This couple of sons were registered as Quakers.

I thought that was just because they lived in Lancashire and I can't make much sense of anything that went on up there....lol

[Olde Crone Holden]

I really HATE the new familysearch layout because I cannot make head nor tail of it and cannot judge how accurate the record may be. Islington Green, London...what does THAT mean?

I can only suggest that you get both films to view at a FHcentre. It may become obvious when you look at the actual records that there are two distinct families involved, or indeed that there is only one family, who made an astonishing switch in religion in two generations.

Noncon records normally have mch more information in them than "ordinary" church records. The extra information is rarely transcribed, so it really is worth seeing the originals.

OC