References needed to get certificates

[LorraineJ]

I am trying to find out a bit more about my GGGF and have come across some notes of when he got married and wondered about getting a marriage certificate and also birth certificates of his and also his wife.

It concerns a Joseph and Ellen Brown (nee Travers), who got married on 14th November 1835, Wilne, Derby. Its thought Joseph was born around 1810 and Ellen 1814.

Is this too early a date to get certificates?, as from reading the intro on the BMD they have only out up dates from 1837. That being so, does anyone know whether they will have them in the future?

In case you are wondering, I think the initial look up was done without references for me and now I do not have access to ancestry to check.

[Christine in Herts]

Civil registration didn't start until the July - September quarter of 1837: hence that cut-off you have noticed.

Before that, there are no certificates, but there are parish register entries to which you may be able to get access. You might keep an eye on FreeREG, which is a sister site of FreeBMD, with transcriptions of parish register entries.

I see you have the marriage date - I guess that's from the IGI? If that's so, then there should be a film to which you can get access via your nearest Family History Centre.
Alternatively, there may be someone who can visit the Derbyshire Records Office (there's no indication of where you live, so I don't know if "someone" could be yourself), to get a copy of the register page for you.

Christine

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Civil registration of births, marriages & deaths in England and Wales was not introduced until the second half of 1837. So no, you cannot get certificates for BMDs before that date.
For pre 1837 events, church parish registers are the first place to look - they record baptisms, marriages and burials.

Jay

[Heather Positive Thinker]

There is someone on ancestry with a tree containing these people - Ive looked at the tree but they seem just to have the Pallots entry as a ref for the marriage and no parents for Joseph or Ellen. (though all census info is there) As already said, you will not get certificates for any events pre 1837 - and the amount of information in the parish register varies from priest to priest. In Norfolk Ive had detail right down to the occupations of the fathers of bride and groom - in other areas you just get the couples names and thats about it.

NB, I just looked at free reg and the parish register entry is shown on there. Not a lot of help for you as no names other than bride and groom:

County Derbyshire
Place Wilne
Church St Chad
RegisterNumber
MarriageDate 14 Nov 1835
GroomForename Joseph
GroomSurname BROWN
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation
GroomAbode Wilne
BrideForename Ellen
BrideSurname TRAVERS
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Unknown
BrideOccupation Spinster
BrideAbode
GroomFatherForename
GroomFatherSurname
GroomFatherOccupation
BrideFatherForename
BrideFatherSurname
BrideFatherOccupation
WitnessOneForename
WitnessOneSurname
WitnessTwoForename
WitnessTwoSurname
Notes
FileNumber 17447

[Guy]

Though it is true modern civil registration did not begin until 1837 it is not true that there were no certificates until then.

See-

http://anguline.co.uk/cert/certificates.htm

;)
Cheers
Guy

[Anne in Carlisle]

But those ones only certify what it says in the Parish Record of the time, don't they? (I had a look at your site). In other words they do not have the information we would hope for on a post 1837 certificate, which is (I suspect) what the original query was wanting.

Anne

[LorraineJ]

I know someone found out for me who Ellen's parents were and I was hoping to find out who Joseph's parents were. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn he was illegitimate but the question is, how do you get more information. I did find (when I had access to ancestry), Ellen's family on the census records but nothing for Joseph.

[Darksecretz]

presumably you have them on census Lorraine?

[Guy]

Yes they are a certified copy of a parish register rather than a certified copy of a civil register but depending on the parish and the year could reveal far more than modern civil registers.

With Joseph being born circa 1810 there is a high possibility that his birth may be recorded in the parish register and also his father's name could be recorded.
After 1812 there is less chance of finding such information in parish registers.

Family history/genealogy is about accuracy and unless we dispel inaccurate myths such as certificate only beginning in 1837 family history will continue to be dismissed as name collectors by the very archivists we rely on to keep and provide the records we need for our research.
Cheers
Guy

[Chrissie Smiff]

I went to the records office in Matlock Derbyshire once and looked up a marriage in 1829 Lorraine but it didn't give any indication of parents of the bride or groom.