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Aussie research help needed please

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  • Aussie research help needed please

    I have a letter dated 1891 from an A.Newman - I think he is Alfred, who mentions that he is married and has a small daughter named Nelly after her aunt (Ellen back in England).
    His wife is an Australian whose father owns several houses - he doesn't mention where.

    At the time of writing he is living in Sydney and works for the government - I don't know in what capacity though. He talks about originally having done some gold fossicking with little success.

    I have had no luck trying to track down his marriage in NSW online and wondered if anyone could help. I haven't much experience in researching in Oz, so any help and direction would be much appreciated. I guess he could have been married in another state but I couldn't seem to get onto the Qld marriages online. Thankyou:o

  • #2
    Val, do you have the area where he is living in Sydney?

    It might be possible to track him down via the Sands Directories if I have an area. Just had a quick look and there are quite a few listed for that time period.

    Sometimes on NSW BDMs the slightest variation in spelling of a name can occur - depends on who wrote the information and how good their hand.

    Comment


    • #3
      You should be able to access Qld BDMs here:

      Comment


      • #4
        I wonder if this NSW birth might be relevant?

        2836/1890 / NEWMAN ELLEN F / THOMAS A / MARTHA M / SYDNEY

        This looks like the corresponding marriage:

        1029/1890 / NEWMAN THOMAS A / BAKER MARTHA M / SYDNEY

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        • #5
          There's an Alfred C.B. Newman married Minnie Feather at Glebe, Sydney in 1888.
          Is that too early?

          There's also an Alfred Newman, district registrar, living at Brown Street, Newtown in 1891?

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          • #6
            That looks like the one, but the daughter was born in 1892, whereas the letter was dated 1891:

            11065/1892 / NEWMAN NELLIE B / ALFRED C B / MINNIE C / COOMA

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            • #7
              If it's the right person, this is probably his birth and death (in NSW):

              Birth:

              5461/1866 / NEWMAN ALFRED C B / ALFRED / MARY S / BATHURST

              Death:

              11804/1948 / NEWMAN ALFRED CHARLES BRUCE / ALFRED / MARY SARAH / BELLINGEN

              Comment


              • #8
                Alfred Charles Bruce Newman is on the electoral rolls from 1930-1943, living in Dorrigo. His occupation is always given as "clerk".

                Nellie's wedding notice:



                Dorrigo's a long way from Sydney, though.
                Last edited by Mary from Italy; 19-12-10, 02:00.

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                • #9
                  Do we know if the Alfred from the letter was born in Australia, or was Ellen in England his sister?

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                  • #10
                    Oops, missed him. There was also an Alfred Newman shown at 4 Mt Vernon Street, Glebe in 1891.

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                    • #11
                      None of the Alfred Newmans in the Sydney area seem to have a daughter Ellen/Nellie, though, apart from Alfred CB and Thomas A (who may not have been an Alfred). I wonder if Nellie could have been born in England?

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                      • #12
                        Ooh back again - sorry folks but you won't believe this - we are having a baby.................no well I'm not, but the DiL is and the three grandaughters have just been dropped off to our house for the night.............so might not be around quite as much as I thought I would be on this wet sunday.

                        Right - what I do know is that Alfred Newman was born to Ellen Newman c.1859 in Walthamstowe London according to the 1871 census where I found him living with his mother who was then married to Robert Hatcher. It doesn't say that he was Robert's stepson but I am assuming he was as he seemed to keep his mother's maiden name when he came to Oz although he adopted Roberts surname on the census. I know I shouldn't assume - but in the letter to his brother whom he doesn't name he mentions another brother George who was a butcher and a sister named Nelly who was a cook - Nelly is thenick name given to the 'Ellen's' born in the Newman family. Ellen Hatcher worked as a servant - so, maybe a cook.

                        I am wondering if the Alfred and Minnie are the right combination - if so would we be able to find out if Minnie Feather's father owned property.

                        Would it be easier if I put the whole contents of the letter up for you to look at? It is six pages but seems to contain little bits of information that could all help.
                        The address he gives to his brother is Mr A Newman c/- General Post Office Sydney Australia - which seems like a not very permanent address, and he may have only been in Sydney for his job.

                        As you can imagine I may be slightly diverted with all the grandaughters - but if I have a free couple of minutes this evening I will type up the letter for you to read for yourselves. Many thanks for all the suggestions so far......:D

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Do you think the date on the letter may be wrong, then?

                          This is Minnie's death:

                          7116/1947 / NEWMAN MINNIE CORA / THOMAS / JEMIMA / BELLINGEN

                          There's no likely birth in NSW, which again contradicts the letter.

                          Can't find her parents' marriage in England, but this is their emigration in 1882 with Minnie and various other children, showing Thomas's occupation as cabinet maker:

                          Last edited by Mary from Italy; 19-12-10, 06:44.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The marriage notice for Alfred and Minnie gives her parents' address, if you can decipher it:



                            The age of this Thomas Feather matches the one in the passenger list:

                            The death occurred on Sunday of Mr. Thomas Feathor, late of Ermington and Rydalmere, where he was at one time clerk to the municipal council. Mr. Feather was 85 years of ...


                            You could now try searching the Trove site to see what else you can find about Thomas.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No wonder I couldn't find Minnie's birth - according to the 1881 census she was born in Canada.

                              Here's the marriage of Thomas Feather and Jemima Atkinson in Quebec:



                              Thomas was a Wesleyan minister at the time of the marriage, and the one who died in NSW in 1922 was a Methodist preacher, so it looks like the same person.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The NSW State Archives has some land records, but I haven't found anything for Thomas:

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                                • #17
                                  Val, found Thomas in Sands Directory and addresses tie in with what Mary found in Trove. He was a sewing machine agent later sewing machine importer. No time to give the sources now but will catch up tomorrow.

                                  Hope all is well with DIL and new bub!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks folks - grandchildren in bed so I have time to read back through all your answers. No baby yet - I don't think things will happen until the middle of the night at least.
                                    Sorry folks but I had the date a year out - it was written in 1890 which rules out Alfred and Minnie - bother..........

                                    I am also going to add the letter for you - it might help clarify things - I copied it verbatim - very interesting for us Aussies seeing as how the present flooding here is almost a carbon copy of how it was then.
                                    Sydney Nov 20 1890
                                    Dear Brother,
                                    I received your kind and welcome letter from mr Short no doubt mother and all of you give it up of ever knowing that I was alive or not, but by a streak of luck I am alive and well although I had a very near escape of turning up my toes last June. I went from sydney up the country for government at a tremendous great flood 300 miles under water such a sight I never saw before in my life it was in Bourke 500 miles from Sydney I was only 4 days there were 4000 homeless in Bourke before I was taken bad with Plurecy and by the time I arrived back in sydney I was nearly gone. I was in the hospital 5 weeks and it was another 3 weeks before I was able to tackle work and then when I had been at work a few weeks we struck work for more money and we struck out three months and we were beaten although our leaders proving trators to us so we have now got to go to work on the same pay as we came out for there was 30,000 of us in the colonies on strike. Our pay is 1.0 per hour we struck for 1.3 per hour and 1.9 per hour for overtime and we lost so we have to work for ten hours a day for 10.. No doubt you think you wish you had as much as that but we think that not enough in a grand country like this. if ever I was to make a rise to come home i would not stop at home after being out here so long I like this country. You tell me that George is at the bakeing in Kingsland if I was him I would make for out here and he would get 2.10.0 per week at it here
                                    There is about 250 shops in sydney bakers and there is a population of 300,000 people, not a small place. I can tell you George could easy get a job assistant baker aboard some of the boats comming out here or come out Emigrant to Queensland or Western Australia then he could easy get to Sydney and he could come and live with me for a month or two till I got him a job. I say there is not a better country under the sun than this country is if I had not speculated I would have had about 400 pounds by now but I had bad luck in prospecting for gold. I have often been sorry I did not send you a few pounds since I have been out here but I was so interested in gold mineing that I thought I would be able to make a big hawl but I was not my luck dear brother . I have got one little daughter named Nelly after sister Nelly I am married to a native of australia her father has half a dozen houses of his own perhaps bye and bye she will a share of them. She sends her love to you all as well as myself I was sorry to here of poor Nelly going to service for a small sum of 3/10 a cook out here gets 16/- per week. I think I have told you all just now I enclose my letter with kind love to mother and father you and your wife and children excepting the same from me my wife and child. I remain your loving brother A.Newman
                                    I will send you my portrait and my wife’s in next letter. Give my love to the little darling Nelly and the other ones I have not seen, for allXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
                                    My address is Mr A Newman
                                    C/- General Post Office
                                    Sydney Australia

                                    I wondered if he was going to draw the portraits himself as we have a drawing done by him of his grandparents house in Eltisley Cambridgeshire. There is an attached note saying it was drawn by ‘Alfred Newman or Hatcher’ - so perhaps other members of the family were just as confused by the two surnames as I have been.
                                    Last edited by Val and George; 19-12-10, 10:05.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      This is what I have so far about Alfred and his family
                                      Ellen Newman married Robert Hatcher 23rd November 1862 @ the Parish church of Hackney in London. They were both of full age, Robert was a carman his father was Samuel Hatcher a labourer. Ellen’s father was Richard Newman a carpenter. Witnesses Alfred Long and Emma Hatcher.
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      1871 Census - Walthamstowe
                                      Robert Hatcher H M 53 carman b.Cambs
                                      Ellen " wife M 34 b.Eltisley
                                      Alfred " son 12 b.Walthamstowe
                                      Herbert " " 7 "
                                      George " " 5 "
                                      Ellen " dau 4 "
                                      Robert " son 1 "
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      1881 Census - Essex St Mary
                                      Skelton Marsh Road
                                      Robert Hatcher H M 60 carman b.Cambs, Upwell
                                      Ellen " wife M 44
                                      Herbert " son 19 carman
                                      George " " 15 errand boy
                                      Ellen " dau 14 scholar
                                      Minnie " " 6
                                      Elizabeth T " 2
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      1891 Census - Walthamstowe Essex
                                      2 Skelton cottages
                                      Robert Hatcher H M 65 carman
                                      Ellen " wife M 52
                                      Minnie " dau 16 housekeeper (dom)
                                      Tamar " " 12 scholar
                                      Rose " " 8
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      1901 Census - Eltisley
                                      Ellen Hatcher a widow aged 65 is back home in Eltisley nursing her mother who is 97 years old.
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                      The drawing we have done 'by Alfred Newman or Hatcher' is of the grandparents house in Eltisley

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Alfred doesn't seem to appear in any other census after that.

                                        His mother Ellen had a sister Jane who married Charles Coe in Cambridge and then in 1852 they travelled out to Australia to the gold fields of Victoria ending up in Williamstown Melbourne where they settled and raised a large family, so Alfred would have known something of what to expect out there from letters that Jane sent back to the family.

                                        I think the brother he had written the letter to would have been Herbert as Robert seems to have 'disappeared' at an early age

                                        I think that is all the information I can supply at present

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