can't find a marriage certificate

[cwheelerparker]

I have a William Wheeler born Limerick 1810 he married a Deborah Barber in 1854 she died in 1864 When William died in 1875 the wife is stated Sophia. I cannot find a marriage certificate. But the marriage would have been St Marylebone London or Middlesex as it was then know. There is only 10 years for the possible marriage.

Sophia did go on and marry again a man with the surname of Gozna

Can anyone help please

Christine

[margaretmarch]

I found a marriage for William Wheeler in Stepney Dec 1866 vol 1c, page 1120 but on ancestry there are only 3 names for that page. So I searched on Sophia, Stepney Dec 1866 and found Sophia Thurley transcribed as page 112. The image shows the page number is 1120.
So I think that's her.
Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

I have been tracking this one too Margaret and I think you could be right. I have found this Sophia Thurley in 1861 and her age fits with 1871 (with William) and 1891(with Henry Gozna). The only thing she doesn't seem sure of each time is where she was born In 1861 Essex Loughton in 1871 Kensington and 1891 Marylebone. The March 1844 Epping birth looks the most likely though as the only other one close is 1839.

[Elaine ..Spain]

The Sophia Thurley/William Wheeler marriage is on the LMA records on Ancestry - gives William's age as 26 which doesn't fit with a birth date of c1810.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Oh not that one then. In 1871 he is given as 54 and Sophia 29 -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_209_211-0439&fn=Rosanah&ln=Wheeler&st=r&ssrc=&pid=27435072

[cwheelerparker]

I had a look at Sophia Thurley I don't think its her I do have his death certificate which was 1875 he is 65 at the time.

I also have William first marriage certificate to Deborah they married 1854

I have her death in 1864

I believe Sophia went on to marry Henry Alfred Gozna but can't find that certificate but she died 1904

Christine

[Chrissie Smiff]

Do you have them in 1901 and the death of Henry Christine? The only thing I can find is a death in 1918 of a Henry G Gozna aged 82 in Poplar and in 1911 a Henry John Gozna aged 75 in an institution in Southwark.
I'm beginning to wonder if Sophia married either William or Henry.

[Elaine ..Spain]

They are in St Pancras in 1901

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=henry&gsln=gozna&sx=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f27=&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1901&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=1&h=2118670&recoff=1+3

RG13; Piece: 144; Folio: 56; Page: 36.

I'm beginning to wonder if Sophia married either William or Henry.

Am thinking the same!

[Chrissie Smiff]

I was thinking the birth cert of Rosanna/Rosina etc would be useful for the mothers maiden name but even that's difficult as there are too many possibilities
p.s. I think she died unmarried in Pancras in sept 1912 as Rosina.

[cwheelerparker]

Haven't been able to find Henry Gozna death and in the census its Henry Alfred

Christine

[Chrissie Smiff]

The most likely Rosina in Pancras in 1911 (free search) seems to have twins Henry and Josephine aged 4 living with her though.

It gets more difficult every minute. Suddenly in 1901 Henry is 40 and Sophia is 50. Quite a change around

Have to go for lunch now.

[margaretmarch]

I was looking at the censuses you have given for Sophia and see that her eldest child Annie was 11 in 1871 so born 1860 which was before Deborah died. I'm thinking she is not a Wheeler but either illegitimate or from an earlier marriage for Sophia. Rosina (Rosanna) my grandmother's name btw! was only 18months in 1871 so presumably William's.
I'm going to look for Annie on 1861 and will let you know.
Margaret

[margaretmarch]

The most likely Rosina in Pancras in 1911 (free search) seems to have twins Henry and Josephine aged 4 living with her though.

It gets more difficult every minute. Suddenly in 1901 Henry is 40 and Sophia is 50. Quite a change around

Have to go for lunch now.

The children are not twins the girl is 4 and the boy is 2. She is a widow and there's a Joseph Jones (married) in the household.
Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

Ahhhhhh thank's Margaret, mine was just a free search.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I assumed Annie was Williams child with Deborah ? i.e. Sophia's step daughter.

[margaretmarch]

I assumed Annie was Williams child with Deborah ? i.e. Sophia's step daughter.

Duh!! yes just twigged that myself. )
Margaret

[margaretmarch]

So the Rosina on the 1911 can't be the one we are looking for as she says widow so her maiden name not Wheeler?
Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

Yes Margaret, it doesn't sound as though she is 'our' Rosina does it.

[margaretmarch]

Here's William and Deborah in 1861 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...c=&pid=8455108 no sign of Annie but there are two other daughters.
I'm starting to wonder if we are looking at two different William Wheeler families.

Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

I'm thinking you might very well be right