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Beanie
09-11-10, 14:49
Could anyone look up a marriage for me by the surname Smith and Harris. This is where iam stuck at,

John Smith b)1854?, Yeovil, Somerset. -m- Elizabeth Harris b)1851, Father: George Harris.

Children:
George Edward b)1876,Rodborough, Stroud, Kingstanley.
Emily Jane b)1880/81,Avening.
William b)1883,Avening.
Joseph b)1886,Forest green, Avening.
Nellie/nelly b)1890, cant find her birth at all.
plus 1 more dont know name on 1911 census 6 children born 1 died.


I have got a certificate that says (Alfred) John Smith married Elizabeth Harris with father being as George Harris, in 1875 Kingstanley. But everyone i have spoke to says his name wasnt Alfred. Also i can not find a Alfred John Smith born in Yeovil Somerset at his time of birth. I have no parents for John Smith.

I would be very greatfull if anyone could do a look up for me.

Elaine ..Spain
09-11-10, 15:27
I have got a certificate that says (Alfred) John Smith married Elizabeth Harris with father being as George Harris, in 1875 Kingstanley. But everyone i have spoke to says his name wasnt Alfred.


Do they have any evidence to support this?

Elaine ..Spain
09-11-10, 15:36
I have got a certificate that says (Alfred) John Smith married Elizabeth Harris with father being as George Harris, in 1875 Kingstanley.

This bit certainly seems to match as there is a George Harris living with John and Elizabeth in the 1891 census. What is George's occupation on the marriage certificate?

Beanie
09-11-10, 15:40
On 2 of there childrens birth certificates i have it says father: John Smith. i have Georges and Josephs my great grandfather.

No they dont as far know. on the marriage certificate (Alfred)John is 21 b)1854. Elizabeth is 22 b)1853, birth year 2 years different.

Elaine ..Spain
09-11-10, 15:42
You have put the name Alfred in brackets - does this actually appear on the marriage certificate? Does it give a name for the groom's father?
What is the occupation of Elizabeth's father on the MC?

What are the names of the witnesses - do they appear to be family members?

Beanie
09-11-10, 15:46
I have had all the census forms for years now, Georges (Elizabeth dad) occupation is a labourer on the marriage cert.
Alfred is the name on the marriage cert aswell his father on there is Thomas Smith occupation Labourer.

Alfred John's age is 21 and Elizabeths age is 22.

I have 2 childrens birth certs George which just states John Smith and Joseph my greatgrandfather also just states John Smith.

Beanie
09-11-10, 15:48
Sorry to repeat i didnt think my second post went on here.

Witnesses i have been through all of that the are W H Bailey and C Bailey, no connection as far as im aware.
I have hve been stuck on this one for about 9 years now and thought id come back to this tree. so any thing i would be greatfull. maybe i do have the wrong marriage that why i was hoping someone could help.

Elaine ..Spain
09-11-10, 15:53
Not sure that you have got the wrong marriage - Elizabeth's half of it seems to fit nicely!
It really is so frustrating when you can't find the missing link - and with a name like Smith it's not easy! :)

Beanie
09-11-10, 16:00
I keep coming back to it and when i cannot find anything i go back to other trees.

Hopefully someone can do a look up Thankyou for your help so far.

scuda
09-11-10, 16:32
Nellie/nelly b)1890, cant find her birth at all.


I should think Nellie is Rose Ellen, b 1889, the mmn is Smith, according to the Glos BMD site: http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd
This is a recent site with information that until recently was only available via the Glos FHS. Births give mother's maiden name, and you can have a good look at all the Harris/Smith marriages, too. The index is not complete for all districts, but Stroud seems to have plenty of info for the time you're looking at. Remember to tick the box to search for exact names, otherwise Smith will give Smithson, etc, as well.

scuda

Beanie
09-11-10, 16:39
ive got her just as Nellie, on the 1901 and 1911 census.

scuda
09-11-10, 16:49
ive got her just as Nellie, on the 1901 and 1911 census.

Names on the census were often not the "official" names, many families just gave the names they actually used. I think it is quite likely that "Rose Ellen" would be known as Nellie - people often ended up using their second names, and the transition from Ellen to Nellie is not unusual.

scuda

scuda
09-11-10, 16:57
Smith/Harris Births in registered in the Horsley office of Stroud District:

Emily Jane 1880
Thomas William 1883
Mary 1885
Joseph 1886
Rose Ellen 1889

This seems to be your family (George Edward would have been a different district)

scuda

Beanie
09-11-10, 17:02
Emily Jane, Joseph are the correct people. In 1911 as stated before they only had 6 children i died.
This being George, Emily.j. William, Joseph, Nellie. 1 child i dont have the name of could be anyone of those extra people.

scuda
09-11-10, 17:25
You say there were six children and 1 of them died - we have George Edward who was registered in 1876 at the Rodborough office of the Stroud district, and the five I listed. The William you have from the census would be Thomas William, Nellie would be Rose Ellen, and Mary is the one that died (not on the Glos BMD site yet, but freeBMD has the death of Mary Smith age 0 in Stroud Q1 1885. Don't be too worried about census names and 'real' names not matching exactly, especially when the children are still with the family and you can judge relative ages, etc.

scuda

scuda
09-11-10, 17:34
And going back to your original question about the marriage, I tend to think you have the right one, and Alfred John just didn't use the name Alfred, so everyone assumed his name was just John. It would be interesting to find the baptisms of the children, as sometimes I have found the vicar giving full names of the parents, when the birth certificate doesn't.

scuda

scuda
09-11-10, 18:18
Also i can not find a Alfred John Smith born in Yeovil Somerset at his time of birth.

Another thought - you (presumably) only know when he was born by the age he gave at his marriage and on the censuses. He could have adjusted his age by a few years, especially as you say he was younger than Elizabeth. He could have added a few years to bring him up to 21 when they married, and to make him closer in age to Elizabeth - there are plenty of instances of this sort of thing.

scuda

Beanie
09-11-10, 21:55
Thomas William could be William would be another little puzzle to the certificate as Alfred John Smiths father is Thomas William on the marriage certificate.

Iam slightly heading towards this ceriticate being right, Elizabeth would have made herself younger aswell her birth was 1851 so she would have been 24, on marriage cert she is 22 being born 1853.