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View Full Version : Edward Woodroofe married Mary Neal 1831 Chesterfield Derbyshire



Calmar
09-11-10, 12:56
Hello,

Can anyone have a look for me after 1831 for this couple please on cenus or other docs. I can't find them at all and I am hoping that they are the parents of my great grandfather William Woodruff born Glossop abt 1833 +/-5 years. The marriage I got from LDS site and Mary's parents of John Neal and Martha Frogatt plus 2 sisters. Hoping they are correct!:)

On William's marriage certificate in Limerick Ireland in 1860 whilst he was serving in the army, he gives Edward as his father and his occupation as Stove Grate Setter, which is what William was before he joined the army.

I can't find William in 1841/1851 census. He enlisted in Liverpool in 1857 with the HEIC and then transferred to British Army about 1859 in Bombay when HEIC was disbanced I believe. That is according to his Attestation Papers from British Library which say he was a Native of Glossope Derbyshire..


I have William and his family up to their deaths, it is just the birth/parents details I am missing. Been searching for over 10 years for this now and Kew doesn't seem to have his documention either.:(

Any help would be most appreciated!:)

Kind regards,
Calmar

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 15:45
Hello and welcome to FTF

I have been looking, but not finding very much tbh. I have found a bapt for a Richard Woodruffe to parents Edward and Mary, this bapt was in Bolsover dist (which is a part of chesterfield)

Richard Woodruffe bapt 10 nov 1833. BOLSOVER, DERBY, ENGLAND

Parents: Edward Woodruffe and Mary

this was found on the LDS Pilot site, I will have a look for abit more.

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 15:55
1861: Richard Woodruff is a glass dealer and also has a BIL and their family living with them

Class: RG9; Piece: 1435; Folio: 78; Page: 45; GSU roll: 542812.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=richard&gsln=woodr***&rg_81004010__date=1833&msbpn=5260&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c1652381%7c3257%7c3251%7c5260%7c&msbpn__ftp=Derbyshire+County%2c+England&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&rs_81004010__date=2&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=18738144&recoff=1+2&db=uki1861&indiv=1

Richard Woodruff 25 glass dealer b. Bolsover derbyshire
Jane Woodruff 25
Emily Woodruff 6 b.birmingham
Thomas Woodruff 8 "" ditto
Edward Woodruff 12 MO b.shropshire
Samuel Woodruff 4 b.Plymouth
Bessy Roel 11 servant
Jarvis Proctor 28 glass dealer, b. derbyshire
Elizabeth Proctor 26 b.bristol
Tommy Proctor 2 b. derbyshire
Elizabeth Proctor 23 born--looks like Choc Berry ??

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 15:57
There is also a Tree for Richard on Ancestry

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/4058483/person/-1656726176

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 16:01
1841: Edward Woodruff (hawker) and there is a Jane NEAL living with them

Class: HO107; Piece 1209; Book: 3; Civil Parish: St Andrew; County: Worcestershire; Enumeration District: 15; Folio: 46; Page: 28; Line: 2; GSU roll: 464215.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1841&sin=C0000006&siv=WORCHO107_1209_1209-0051&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=25&h=16106284&recoff=

Edward Woodruff age 25 Hawker not born in county
Richard "" "" age 7 Not born in county
Mary "" "" age 3 Not born in county

Jane NEAL age 65 not born in county

Calmar
09-11-10, 16:07
Hi Julie,

The children I found for John Neal and Martha were Mary, Ann christended 1810 Bolsover and Sarah christened 1804. No Jane showing for those parents on Pilot site.

Unfortunately I do not have subs at the moment for Ancestry so cannot see 1861 census. William was in the army by then and only shows on 1871 in Cheriton Kent in Barracks with his family.

Kind regards,
Calmar

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 16:10
ahhh I see Calmar, I saw your ancestry tree and presumed (wrongly!! :) ) that you had a sub.. sorry about that. I will give a transcript in a moment for you.

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 16:36
have updated the posts with transcripts for you :)

Calmar
09-11-10, 16:47
Many thanks for that info Julie. I wonder where his wife is? Perhaps she has died. I had thought originally that may be Edward had died and mother re-married. But the occupation doesn't match what William put on marriage cert does it? I suppose he could have changed it after William left home.

Is there any sign of William with Edward in 1841/51 please?

Can't quite think at the moment who Jane Neal would belong to aged 65!

Calmar

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 17:10
Calmar,

nope I cannot find anything at the moment regarding Edward, I, like you found his marriage to Mary Neal but not alot else.. I have to go cook now but I'll have another look afterwards :)

Calmar
09-11-10, 17:17
Many thanks Julie,

This family most frustrating to find early details!!!

Enjoy your meal. My oven door has just dropped off with vibration from the washing machine, so having to re think my evening meal!!:crying:

Regards,
Calmar:)

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 22:08
ooh I hope that you managed to sort your cooker!

I have been thinking, on Williams'/ John Williams marriage cert does it state that Edward is dead?

Re Edwards marriage to Mary have you had a look at the PRs? do they give any clue as to where they came from? am thinking maybe Banns or Settlement orders might help.

Calmar
09-11-10, 22:34
I managed to screw it back together but I am afraid I need a new one!!:)

This is all it shows on Pilot search Julie. No clues as to who his parents are or where he came from. Mary came from the Bolsover area tho. Perhaps he was trading his wares when they met.

Edward Woodroofe (https://beta.familysearch.org/s/recordDetails/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpilot.familysearch.org%2Frec ords%2Ftrk%3A%2Ffsrs%2Frr_848077825%2Fp4&hash=HloWXpZgU9zB10k5M56iYku8TUc%253D) England Marriages, 1538–1973

spouse:Mary Nealmarriage:19 Dec 1831 — Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England record title:England Marriages, 1538–1973 groom's name:Edward Woodroofebride's name:Mary Nealmarriage date:19 Dec 1831marriage place:Chesterfield, Derbyshire, Englandindexing project (batch) number:M01373-5system origin:England-EASysource film number:1752144
I too have had a thought on Wm's movements before army enlistment and comment re him being a 'Native of Glossop' on Attestation Papers. If his father was peddling his wares perhaps he was born there but they seemed to move about a bit according to the infomation on 1861 census. Children born in different places. May be that is why he enlisted in Liverpool in 1857, I think there was a child born in Shropshire and then one in Plymouth in 1857, so may be he decided not to go with them to Plymouth but enlisted instead!!!:)

This seems the most likely scenario I have come across to date!!;D Or is it straw clutching again!

Calmar

Darksecretz
09-11-10, 23:00
hmm no I dont think it is clutching at straws, IF he was a hawker/peddler Edward that is, then it does seem likely, just because they married in Chesterfield area dont necessarily mean they came from there does it? He could've been travelling the country selling, it is slightly worrying though that the wife isnt there, maybe she did die.. I can't seem to find a likely Edward either in the 1851 census, though I have had another thought:

if you buy Richards marriage cert that may tell you IF Edward is dead and give an occupation for him and also the witness' might help?

Marriages Sep Q 1852

Jane Worth PROCTOR
Richard WOODROOF
Dudley 6c 66

Calmar
09-11-10, 23:06
Julie,

I got off track with my reply re marriage cert for William.

No, it doesn't say he was deceased. Just gives his name and occupation on the civil marriage record in Limerick and no parents shown on the army registers entry. That marriage is recorded on LDS site now but wasn't showing when I found it. Got it from their Irish records. July 1860.

John William Woodruff (https://beta.familysearch.org/s/recordDetails/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpilot.familysearch.org%2Frec ords%2Ftrk%3A%2Ffsrs%2Frr_378978048%2Fp1&hash=HloWXpZgU9zB10k5M56iYku8TUc%253D) Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

residence:Limerickmarriage:1860 — Limerick record title:Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958name:John William Woodruffregistration district:Limerickevent type:MARRIAGESregistration quarter and year:1860volume number:6page number:645digital folder number:4195894

Darksecretz
10-11-10, 11:25
Margaret,

there is another tree on ancestry that has John William marrying a Mary Browne, but has his parents as Edward Woodruff and a Mary Winters...

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/17746923/person/549864338

maudarby
10-11-10, 12:36
Hi
Full details from FreeREG of the 1831 marriage at Chesterfield.
Edward Woodruffe of "this parish" & Mary Neale of "this parish. Witnesses Anne Procter & William Edwards. By Banns. Baptisms at Chesterfield only covered in FreeREG up to 1800.
Moggie

Calmar
10-11-10, 13:14
Yes Julie, this is the only one we could find with a son of John William to an Edward. it is my cousin's tree. But i have never been happy with it because that John William is still around and married to someone else in 1861 when my gtgrandfather was in the Army then..

Regards,
Calmar

Calmar
10-11-10, 13:16
Hi Moggie,

Is that the Freebmd site or another one? I will go and have a look at both sites. Thank you very much for info of the witnesses, that might help with the Procter surname.

Regards,
Calmar

maudarby
10-11-10, 14:03
Hi Moggie,

Is that the Freebmd site or another one? I will go and have a look at both sites. Thank you very much for info of the witnesses, that might help with the Procter surname.Calmar


Hi Calmar
Yes it is the FreeBMD site.
If you do a soundex search for Woodruff marriages at Chesterfield you should get 18 results. Some are the names of brides & some witnesses. Disregard 3, 16 & 17. Just a pity that the baptisms there only go up to about 1800.
Moggie

Calmar
10-11-10, 15:27
Hi Moggie,

I went to FreeREG site that came up on Google search and found that record there. It only gave me 1 record tho.:) The Freebmd site only starts at 1837 I think, so no records on there, unless there is another free site that I am not aware of!!;D I will have another trawl through Free REg and see if any of the witness show.

Regards,
Calmar

maudarby
10-11-10, 15:42
Hi Calmar
You need to tick the soundex box because Woodruff can be spelt in so many different ways.
Moggie

Calmar
10-11-10, 15:47
Yes I did that because of difference in spelling his name but only 1 came up. Never mind, as long as I got the result that is all that matters!!

maudarby
10-11-10, 16:14
Hi Calmar
Don't forget to take Edward out of the forename box & then you should get 18 marriages. 16,17 & 3 are not relevant.
Moggie

Calmar
10-11-10, 16:28
Hi Moggie,

I didn't do it that way and as you say, lots of hits with it. It helped me in one way because number 25 Samuel Yates was married to a Hannah Woodroofe and they had 2 boys living with them in 1841 and 51, Robert and William, down as 1odgers in 51. I was thinking that Mary had re married and this was 2nd husband. Her name changed on census! I had been chasing that William for ages before realising that it was not mine. Thought they may have been taken in by other family members also. So can definitely forget that one.:)

That site has got a lot more records on it than when I first looked at it some years ag now I must confess. Will use it again. Thanks for link.

Calmar
:good:

Darksecretz
10-11-10, 18:04
Hi
Full details from FreeREG of the 1831 marriage at Chesterfield.
Edward Woodruffe of "this parish" & Mary Neale of "this parish. Witnesses Anne Procter & William Edwards. By Banns. Baptisms at Chesterfield only covered in FreeREG up to 1800.
Moggie


ooh Moggie I think that this ties in the family and marriage between Richard and Jane Proctor might have some connection to the Anne Proctor who was a witness? as I recall the Proctors came from Bolsover and were Glass dealers the same as Richard.

Calmar
10-11-10, 20:26
My thoughts too Julie. You have both been most helpful in my quest. BIG thank you from me and mine.;D But still can't find William yet on FreeReg. I will keep digging!!:fingers-crossed:

Calmar
:good: