Bankruptcy - does anyone understand what this means?

[Somerset Sal]

I've found notices of bankruptcy proceedings in 1820 in the London Gazette; the 3rd notice says,
". the said John Bysh hath in all things conformed himself according to the directions of the several Acts of Parliament.... This is to give notice that by virtue of an Act passed... his certificate will be allowed and confirmed as the said Act directs unless cause be shewn to the contrary on before 19th day of August next."

What did the certificate certify? That he was actually bankrupt or that he'd done enough to avoid bankruptcy?

Does anyone know?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Normally, a certificate was given as proof of discharge from bankruptcy.

OC

[Somerset Sal]

Thank, OC. I think I understand... I wonder if he'd have done any time in prison for debt?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Probably not, as he had his certificate of discharge. It was only when no attempt was made to pay off debts, either wouldn't or couldn't, that prison was invoked, I think.

OC

[Night Owl]

There's a useful description of the process in TNA Research Guides here

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/bankrupts-insolvent-1710-1869.htm

[Somerset Sal]

Thanks, Jackie - sounds as if that's exactly what I need. I seem to have a distressingly large number of bankrupts in my tree!

[Guest]

wish I could afford to go bankrupt if you know what I mean?

[Uncle John]

Thanks, Jackie - sounds as if that's exactly what I need. I seem to have a distressingly large number of bankrupts in my tree!

The London Gazette is your friend in these matters.

wish I could afford to go bankrupt if you know what I mean?

Not as daft as it sounds! You did (and probably still do) need some funds to pay for the bankruptcy proceedings.

[Guest]

I cant say too much but somebody I know went Bankrupt to the tune of well over £10,000 and ended up not having to pay hardly any of it back ? hardly the way to teach anybody not to overspend is it ? Would the same have happened years ago would they have been able to pay back less than they owed ????

[Olde Crone Holden]

Val

Yes, they would have been able to pay back less than they owed, but things were much stricter back then and the receivers would have taken literally everything they had, bar a bed, a chair and the tools of their trade. After five years, a person could apply for discharge from bankruptcy if they had made every possible effort to pay back what they owed, but it was an impossible task for some reason, say they were ill, or had no means of earning a huge sum.

Also, if it was felt that they had run up debts carelessly or needlessly, that was when the criminal element came into it and they went to prison.

OC

[Guest]

thanks for that OC but I do wish she had been made to pay it all back even if it took years , as she hasn't learnt by it .

[Olde Crone Holden]

Val

I know someone who is going bankrupt for the 4th time in 28 years. He has never had to pay back a penny because he has learned how to hide all his assets. Although I don't care whether the banks get back the money they were stupid enough to lend him (for the second, third and fourth times) I do feel sorry for the little businesses who have suffered by his actions.

And to think people once committed suicide from the shame of going bankrupt!

OC

[Guest]

people still do kill themselves over it OC , I dont know why they dont stop spending when it starts to get too much not wait till its too late.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Val

I know quite a few people who went bankrupt in the late 1980s. the debt was a bank loan to prop up a business, a very good, paying business - they were encouraged by the bank to borrow the money to expand their business.

Then the bank pulled the plug and bank charges were added at something like £1,000 per WEEK which they could not of course pay.

They lost everything to the bank. The only money they owed was to the bank, in the form of unpaid bank charges.

OC

[Vivienne]

Val

I know quite a few people who went bankrupt in the late 1980s. the debt was a bank loan to prop up a business, a very good, paying business - they were encouraged by the bank to borrow the money to expand their business.

Then the bank pulled the plug and bank charges were added at something like £1,000 per WEEK which they could not of course pay.

They lost everything to the bank. The only money they owed was to the bank, in the form of unpaid bank charges.

OC

One of the people who went bankrupt in the late 80s was me!
Don't condemn everyone who goes bankrupt Val. I tried everything but when you are in the process of getting a new business off the ground & the one that is supporting you suddenly finds it's turnover dropping from £45,000 a year to £9,000 there is not a lot you can do!
We saw a financial advisory charity who told us there was nothing else we could do but take ourselves bankrupt & we had to stuggle to find the money to do that. We nearly died of shame but the advisors, the judge & the official receiver all told us it was not our fault, we were victims of the depression.
We lost everything & I often wonder if it was the strain that triggered my husbands cancer.

[Guest]

Vivienne that I can understand ,I'm sorry if I gave that impression ? was talking more about people who bought things for the home for the sake of it knowing they can go bankrupt and are still spending as if they couldnt care less as they were not made to pay much back.

[anniern]

I am sorry Viviene that sounds very distressing. I know someone who bought a fast food business to run with his wife and then went bancrupt after she developed M.E. and was unable to work.

Thanks for the link. I had wondered why one of my Clifford stone masons was described as mason and chapman on his bancrupcy application. It had seemed an unlikely combination.

[Janet]

Yes its sad when you hear about some people's bankruptcy, for there are Bankrupts and Bankrupts and to read the Daily Gutterpress you would sometimes think that all bankrupts are out for themselves, that they all just spend money on goods, then go bankrupt and start all over again. There are many like that today but why do the banks lend them the money time and time again? But then you get the bakrupt who loses out in a depression like Vivienne and as did my own grandfather in the late 1920's. Not saying that some of it wasn't his fault, but in the main, his business went down because of the 1929 stockmarket crash. A few years earlier and he might have gone to a debtors prison!

Janet