Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hit a brick wall ............ don't know which way to turn next !!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hit a brick wall ............ don't know which way to turn next !!

    I am really stuck !!
    My Great Grandfather WALTER VALLANCE has become a real problem to track down , we know where he ended his life , but where he began is a little confusing .

    He died in Bradford (have death cert ) 28-10-1944 aged 71 born 1873
    Married in Bradford (have marriage cert) 02-06-1906 aged 26 which makes him born 1880 depending on when birthday was .
    We know both certs are correct as Great Grandmother and addresses are known to be correct .

    The story goes that in later life he found out that he was older than he thought he was as he could have claimed his pension years earlier than he did . Great Grandmother worked for a solicitor cleaning and he found out his true ID . He was told that his parents were killed travelling up country visiting and he survived and was brought up by a family named ETHERINGTON ( Herbert Etherington was a witness at his marriage)

    On the 1891 census Walter Vallance is living at the same house as Mary Etherington Walter is listed as a boarder. aged 17 born 1974.

    On the 1901 census Walter Vallance is living at the same address as Mary Hetherington Walter is listed as Son , aged 21 born 1880

    Both Marys are born 1830 in Gildersome Yorkshire so I think its the same lady just a spelling error ETHERINGTON/Hetherington .

    The 1881 census shows Walter Vallance born 1874 alongside Alfred Vallance born 1872 no parents with them at NORTH BIERLEY UNION WORKHOUSE at Clayton Bradford .

    I tried to search the archives for the records via WYAS WAKEFIELD . They said there was no record of him on the archives they have at BRADFORD and said that KEIGHLEY might have some records a volume of orders for boarding out children to foster parents !! Has anyone searched these records ? Is it worth me paying out another £24 an hour for them to search these records to tell me that there isn't an entry for WALTER ?

    Both Walter and Alfred state on their Marriage certs that their father is William VALLANCE .

    All my searches can’t find a birth cert for Walter VALLANCE with father William the birth cert that I sent for has Walter VALLANCE born 1874 Bradford father Alfred VALLANCE mother Hannah VALLANCE late HILL formally GOFF.

    Can anyone help me please or put me in the right direction ?

    Regards


    Beverley
    Beverley



    researching Kennedy , Lines , Edwards , Vallance , Shaw , Blomfield , Oliver

  • #2
    Hi Beverley, Welcome to FTF.
    Have you looked for a death cert for Alfred and Hannah Vallance at all? if so did they die at the same time?
    Have you found a birth for Alfred Vallance b1872?
    Margaret

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to FTF!

      Both Marys are born 1830 in Gildersome Yorkshire so I think its the same lady just a spelling error ETHERINGTON/Hetherington .
      That seems very likely. I have exactly the same (H)ETHERINGTON name linked in to my CHRISTMAS tree in Hampshire.

      You may need to make use of the Local BMD websites if the names haven't made it to the GRO index. Unfortunately Barnsley and Sheffield aren't so well-developed yet as the Yorks BMD site, and don't carry so much info, but they may still help you at some point. If you start with www.ukbmd.org.uk that will get you to a very useful site, which has lots of well-organised lists of links. One of the lists is of Local BMD sites - including all three I've mentioned and a lot more.

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes have searched extensively for an Alfred , Hannah , William but don't seem to come up with anything that ties up !! Alfred VALLANCE b1872 did find one born in Belper Derbyshire but haven't sent for cert. to see if he has same parents as Walter born in Bradford . Beginning to think that the story given to the family was made up to cover over something else maybe !!


        Beverley
        Beverley



        researching Kennedy , Lines , Edwards , Vallance , Shaw , Blomfield , Oliver

        Comment


        • #5
          that 1901 census says Walter was born in Southampton?

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello Bevken

            "Years older than he thought he was".

            This strikes a chord with me as I have just been helping a friend find out about her deceased mother, who always insisted she was younger than everyone said she was, and declared that the birth certificate she had was not hers.

            I discovered she was right! The reason I thought she must be right was....if you think you are 26, but everyone else says you are 30, then how do THEY account for the four years you cannot remember? Same with your Walter, who married at 26...if he was really 30, how did he account for the missing years?

            Solicitors can be wrong - they were in the case of my friend's mother! What they had found was a birth certificate for a child of the same name (her sister) who, I found out, had died in infancy and my friend's mum born four years later was given the same name.

            Have you found him in 1911? I know census ages cannot be relied on, but Mary Etherington would have known he hadn't aged only four years between 1891 and 1901 and would presumably had no reason to lie about his age! The other possibility is that his age was actually 27 in 1901 and it was mistranscribed, either from the form to the enumerators' book, or from the enumerator's book to the internet...have you checked the image?

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              I've found him in 1911;
              age 32 (b 1879) born in Clayton again!!
              ~ Louise ~

              Researching Dalzell, Highmore & Sumpton in Cumbria, also Braidford & Chevalier

              Comment


              • #8
                The 1901 image RG13; Piece: 4174; Folio: 44; Page: 25. has Walter's age crossed through so darkly it is impossible to tell what his age is except it is 20-something. So guess by the transcriber!!
                It does though say he was born in Southampton but on the 1891 census it just says England.
                By 1911 Walter has married and says he is 32 and that he was born in Clayton, Yorkshire. This is information he has given but the handwriting for the place of birth looks like it might be the enumerator as it is different to the rest! Maybe Walter left it blank and was questioned about it later.
                Margaret

                Comment


                • #9
                  do they say what William the fathers occ was???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I cannot find a birth for a Walter and a Alfred in the right time frame in Yorks , but found a birth for
                    Alfred Vallance
                    1872 Derby
                    and a
                    Walter Vallance
                    1874 and 1876 Derby ????
                    wonder if they just thought they were born in Yorks ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Herbert Hetherington (the marriage witness) was Mary Etherington's grandson, by her son Albert.
                      Mary Etherington was married to a Thomas Etherington who died 1889 age 62.She seems to have had at least 4 daughers & 2 sons, I thought Walter may be the son of one of her daughters...but can't see a connection yet.

                      I can't find a Hannah Goff marriage to a Hill, or an Albert Vallance marriage.
                      ~ Louise ~

                      Researching Dalzell, Highmore & Sumpton in Cumbria, also Braidford & Chevalier

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Walter Vallance birth registered in A/M/J 1874 is registered at Bradford district, which could fit with Clayton as a place of birth.
                        ~ Louise ~

                        Researching Dalzell, Highmore & Sumpton in Cumbria, also Braidford & Chevalier

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And I have found a DEATH for Walter Vallance, aged 0, 1876, Rotherham, so we are dealing with at least two Walters - one born in 1874 (survived, presumably) and one born in 1876, died.

                          Was his bride a lot younger than him and did he knock five years off his age, at marriage? He was 7, then 17, then 20-something, then in 1911 when he should have been 37, he is only 32.

                          I cannot find any death records for his parents.

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And I have found a DEATH for Walter Vallance, aged 0, 1876, Rotherham, so we are dealing with at least two Walters - one born in 1874 (survived, presumably) and one born in 1876, died.
                            Perhaps it was the second Walter who survived, and someone got mixed up with the dates.

                            Christine
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Now this is interesting;
                              Alfred Vallance the older brother is age 19 in the 1881 census born Clayton, but age 26 in the 1901 census & born Southampton....so he's lost a couple of years & changed his place of birth the same as Walter!
                              ~ Louise ~

                              Researching Dalzell, Highmore & Sumpton in Cumbria, also Braidford & Chevalier

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Louise

                                How bizzarre! BOTH changing their ages and they are both adults, so would have a good idea of how old they roughly were.

                                Christine

                                no, I meant there must be two families, both with a Walter, as the one born in 1876 died in 1876.

                                I have found this marriage which isn't correct, I don't suppose, but does point to there being a parallel family, LOL!

                                William Vallance to ANN Thompson, Doncaster 1872.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Christine

                                  no, I meant there must be two families, both with a Walter, as the one born in 1876 died in 1876.
                                  Doh! Of course you did! I wasn't paying enough attention to what I was reading, was I!

                                  Christine
                                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thank you all for the time and information that you have given, all the above are the same as what I have found so far Walter is my mothers Grandfather he died when she was 11 in 1944. The story they were given is that his parent's were killed in a train crash coming to visit family , they never talked about a brother he may have had but after researching an Alfred Vallance b1872 married Emily SMITH 1910 on his army records says he was born Clayton also on the 1891 census says he was born Southampton same as Walter but censuses changes it to clayton . Both Walter and Alfred on their marriage certs say their father was William VALLANCE (deceased) occupation Labourer excavator . Alfred died 1916 and his son Tom in the same year aged 5.

                                    Mum remembers asking her Grandma why Grandad had two names on his pension book VALLANCE and ETHERINGTON
                                    Beverley



                                    researching Kennedy , Lines , Edwards , Vallance , Shaw , Blomfield , Oliver

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      **Sorry should have said 1901 census Alfred changed place of birth to Southampton **
                                      Beverley



                                      researching Kennedy , Lines , Edwards , Vallance , Shaw , Blomfield , Oliver

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Bevken,
                                        its certainly an interesting problem.
                                        As I see it, on the 1881 census when they are 7 & 9 its more likely that the person in charge has put their place of birth as Clayton, which could be the place they were living when they went into the workhouse.
                                        We can't seem to find either an Alfred & Hannah Vallance or a William Vallance, so I think if you got the 2 Derbyshire birth certificates for Walter & Alfred, it would at least clarify/eliminate those two. It is £18, but otherwise you'll never know if it could have been them.
                                        ~ Louise ~

                                        Researching Dalzell, Highmore & Sumpton in Cumbria, also Braidford & Chevalier

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X