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  • Ships carpenters

    Where is the best place to start looking for ships carpenter crew members from 1860, most likely out of Liverpool, when you have no information on this, nor knowledge of any ship they would have served on?

    They (2 brother's) are not to be found on any census after 1851 but I knew they both married and at least one had children. One of the wives did become a widow and re-married. But there is no trace of the other brothers wife or family.

    I am now convinced they must have been lost at sea, but it is knowing where to go from here. If it is possible to go further.
    Jen
    Avatar: One of my paintings.

    Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.


  • #2
    Jen

    Many of my ship's carps (and I have a lot!) worked in the shipyards and didn't necessarily go to sea.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      These two were Block maker / Mariners OC so I suspect they must have, otherwise wouldn't they have appeared on the cunsus'?
      Jen
      Avatar: One of my paintings.

      Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

      Comment


      • #4
        Is it Ok to name them...were they from Liverpool ? ....I can ask a few Salty Dogs here in Garston...I`m sure they will have some info or contact ...Garston is full of old sailors....allan
        Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
        oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
        adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
        merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
        coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

        Comment


        • #5
          Jen

          Actually, now you've said that, I recall I have a 3 x GGF who was a ship's carpenter and never ever appeared on any census at all. The only way I know he existed is because I'm here, lol, and I do have his BMD certs. He also managed to father ten children, so must have been at home some time, just not at census time.

          OC

          Comment


          • #6
            Loads of old Sailors here in Garston,Liverpool ...were they from Liverpool ? .....Jen ....don`t forget Manchester Ship Canal took a lot of the trade and sailed up from Runcorn, so they could easily have sailed from Manchester......allan
            sorry about repeated words but I am using a dongle and it keeps switching off , so I didn`t think the 4th post actually was sent...allan
            Last edited by garstonite; 07-10-10, 13:37.
            Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
            oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
            adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
            merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
            coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

            Comment


            • #7
              Jen i have 5 ancestors who were shipwrights (carpenters) and 2 of them never went to sea as far as i know,one went to Australia and the other 2 disappeared off the face of the earth so most likely were lost at sea. Every ship needed a shipwright on board for repairs. If you give me their names i can look in the Trinity House Indexes for any possible reference there.

              Comment


              • #8
                You would think so OC but I only found out that the older brother had 2 children was because I found their births and deaths........at no time was he ever with his wife on a census, in fact she was on one census with her parents after having their first child.......so he must have been at sea then. Then they had another child and she was still with her parents. The next time I found her, she was widowed and living with her married sister, then I found another marriage for her. But nowhere in between did I find Jonathan her 1st husband. You know this family OC.....I've been looking for them for some time.

                Allan, good idea and a generous offer.........what I know of the brothers........

                Jonathan Chandler born 1837 married 1858 to Elizabeth Chandler (2 daughters)

                Charles Chandler born 1839 married 1860 to Jane Davies........No trace of either after finding the marriage.

                They came from the Toxteth area.....addresses I have so far, Grafton street, Back Grafton street and Jordan street.........all I think close to the dock area.

                Anything that can be discovered would be a bonus at this point Allan, though I won't hold my breath lol!

                The were both Block maker / Mariners......info found on marriage certs. Their Father William was a Stevedore/Labourer.

                I have resigned myself to the fact that they probably were lost at sea.........it's the niggly bits inbetween I want to find out about. Not so much Jonathan but wondering why I can't find Charles' wife Jane or a family for him. Also left wondering if they may have served on the same ship....and met their end together???

                Many thanks for the offer Allan.
                Jen
                Avatar: One of my paintings.

                Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think you may have all ready done this for me Valley, but there names are above and thanks again for the offer.
                  Jen
                  Avatar: One of my paintings.

                  Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh Allan I think you may have definately hit on something there. With the Manchesteer ship canal and Runcorn connection. Jonathan's wife Elizabeth was from Cheshire.
                    Living with her parents at Frodsham Lordship Overton. Their children were registered at Runcorn. That would appear to fit in with Jonathan & Elizabeth..........Still no info on Charles & Jane though!
                    Jen
                    Avatar: One of my paintings.

                    Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also and may be of some use........we are unable to find Jonathan's death!
                      Jen
                      Avatar: One of my paintings.

                      Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Have you tried to see if they get any mentions in the British Library C19th Newspaper Collection? I can get access onine from home using my library card. I think that Lancashire has similar facilities - or , at least, the Times Digital Archive.

                        Christine
                        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No I haven't tried that Christine, being the only 2 (so far) mariners, I really don't know where or how to look further.
                          Jen
                          Avatar: One of my paintings.

                          Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My ships carpenter never worked as crew on sea-going vessels - but travelled widely in the UK and elsewhere, with his wife & family.
                            His children were born in Norwich, Grimsby, Bawtry, Scotland, Norway, and Devon. He appeared in census in 1851 in Grimsby with his wife and children; by 1861 census his wife had died and all his children were living in Norfolk with his unmarried s/law acting as housekeeper; in 1871 he, second wife, some children from the 1st marriage and all children from the second marriage were staying at an inn - he was recorded as a journeyman carpenter. Only in 1881 does he appear to have put down roots in Kent - he was a retired carpenter - by 1891 he'd died, but wife and younger children of second marriage were at the same address.

                            So, don't give up on him in census - he COULD be in a very different part of the country from the one you're expecting, and with a mangled name!

                            I read somewhere that a shipwright worked on NEW builds & complete refits, whilst a ships carpenter worked on REPAIRS and general maintenance.

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Many thanks Janet, that has given me lots to think about, I shall try and look at Charles at least with fresh eyes now.
                              I have suspected he may have been in another part of the country on ocassion but much of the criteria appeared so far out.......eg, place of birth etc. It makes it difficult to claim someone as your ancestor when you know so little doesn't it?

                              Still mystified as to why Jonathan's death can not be unearthed.

                              Bearing in mind also, that I only found one reference to the 'Ships carpenter' theory, all other info states Block Maker / Mariner for both brothers. And I'm not exactly sure what these trades entailed.
                              Last edited by Jen~Ealogy; 07-10-10, 16:55.
                              Jen
                              Avatar: One of my paintings.

                              Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Block Maker
                                I'd imagine that that would be as in "block and tackle". As the blocks are quite complex things, with (i'd guess) not a lot of tolerance for error, that would be a technically demanding and skilled job.

                                Christine
                                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  That's what I thought Christine. They both appeared to have trained as Block makers from a young age, probably apprenticed. I suppose it's possible they did other forms of carpentry work later, once they had married and started families....if the wives objected to them going to sea so much.
                                  Jen
                                  Avatar: One of my paintings.

                                  Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    If you can make blocks, then I'd suspect that other woodwork is a lot more simple!

                                    Christine
                                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Well the only Charles Chandler I managed to turn up was in the 1881 census......he and his wife appear to fit some of the criteria eg.......

                                      He's living in London, Battersea area.....with his wife Jane (correct wife's 1st name).....and a son of 13 also named Charles.

                                      However, it states he was born in Newbury Buckinghamshire........I know some people said they were born elsewhere.

                                      His occupation really jumped out at me though as HE was a Barge Builder.

                                      It's the closest I have come so far.......I will try and trace them further back and find his wife's maiden name. What's the betting they won't be mine?
                                      Last edited by Jen~Ealogy; 07-10-10, 19:46.
                                      Jen
                                      Avatar: One of my paintings.

                                      Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Certainly sounds plausible, though!

                                        Christine
                                        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                        Comment

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