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Florence Bateman - What to do next?

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  • Florence Bateman - What to do next?

    Please can someone help me crack my mystery?! I need some help trying to work out which Florence Mary Bateman could possibly be my Great Grandma! This is what I know:

    Reginald Percy Bateman (14/04/1914 - 15/04/2001) was my Grandfather and he was born in Clapham Maternity. On birth certificate it shows his mother was Florence Mary Bateman who was a domestic servant of 104 Waterloo road. There was no detail of the father.

    Lambeth Workhouse records show that they both went in on 29/04/1914 and came out again on the 02/05/1914. It says Florence was 20 years old at this point.

    I have looked at census and electoral registars for 104 waterloo road around the time of Reginalds birth but that hasn’t really helped :

    1911 census – Schwinn family living there
    Electoral registers 1914 - Arthur Robert Walpole
    Electroal registers 1914/15 Alice Osborne
    Electoral registers 1915 Percy George Sanders and Alice Osborne

    On my granfathers marriage certificate he put down that his dad was Reginald Percy Bateman (Deceased) but I think this was a lie.

    Now I just need some help or clues or hints as to how I narrow down which Florence May Bateman


    Thanks for any help in advance!

  • #2
    Welcome to FTF.
    I think you need to find Florence Mary Bateman in the 1911 census. I can Florence Bateman age 16 born in Nunhead London who is listed as a domestic servant but still living with her parents in Dulwich.
    Margaret
    Last edited by margaretmarch; 19-09-10, 16:05.

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    • #3
      In the BMD index on ancestry there are 2 Florence Mary Bateman births in 1895 who are possibly your gt grandmother one born in Berkhampstead, Buckinghamshire and the other Rochdale, Lancashire.
      You could see if you can find them on the 1911 and trace them through to a marriage or death.
      Margaret

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      • #4
        Thank you for your reply, I have had a look in the 1911 census and there are 2 Florence Mary Batemans ..... both 15 and both servants. The first one is working as a miad at 3 Alyesbury road, buckinghamshire for the 'Rose family' and she was born in Marston Gate, Bucks. The second is living with her family at Wingrave Alysebury Buckinghamshire and it says she was born in Long Marston. Do you think they are the same person?

        There are also a Florence Bateman in the 1911 census aged 16, born in london. Did they have to put their middle names down or not?

        Thanks again. Will now try and look at marriages or death.

        Gemma

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        • #5
          It's quite common for people to be recorded twice, so they could well be the same person.
          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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          • #6
            Middle names were not always shown, it depended who filled the form out.
            Margaret

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            • #7
              Ok, so what is the best way of finding out which Florence is the right one? Is it worth seeing if Reginald Bateman was baptised to see if there is any more information about his mother florence?

              Thanks for all your replies so far

              Gemma

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              • #8
                Or are there any other records that might give a few more clues to narrow it down?

                Thanks

                Gemma

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                • #9
                  Not sure you would be able to trace a baptism of such recent date but you might try the church local to the workhouse and to the address she gave. Dir your grandfather grow up with his mother or was he adopted?
                  Margaret

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                  • #10
                    He was adopted, and grew up at 190 High Road, Tottenham and I have looked at electoral records for that address around 1934 when I knew he was living here )from his marriage certificate) but that hasn't given me any clues either, so I have no trace apart from what is on the birth certificate and the information from the workhouse record!

                    I think the local church to 100 waterloo road and the workhouse was St Johns church, in waterloo road. I have had a quick look for records for this church, but I think it may need a trip into london to search them properly!

                    Thanks again

                    Gemma

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                    • #11
                      I have found that there was a marriage in 1917, Wingrave buckinghamshire between a Florence Mary Bateman (born in 1894) and Percy Sidney Elkins (born 1891). Was it likely that she may have married his father at a later date? On the 1911 census it shows Percy Elkins living in Hemel Hempstead as a Evelope cementer along with his mother and a boarder.

                      Still need to find the missing link to connect Reginald Percy Bateman with the correct Florence Mary Bateman as his mum!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the only way you will be able to do that with any certainty is to find a living relative of a Florence Mary and see if they have any information about her and whether or not they have any knowledge of her having had your grandfather and giving him up for adoption. They might at least be able to say what her occupation was and whether the addresses you have for her fit with anything they know.

                        This could prove impossible because such issue were often a complete secret to everyone but the mother.

                        Worth looking though until you cover all the possibilities.
                        Margaret
                        Last edited by margaretmarch; 21-09-10, 19:57.

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                        • #13
                          its a long shot but maybe you could find if Percy Elkins had a WW1 service record and hope that his next of kin is named as Florence. Sorry havent got ancestry so cant look it up for you.
                          Angelina

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                          • #14
                            I have just found out that Percy George Osborne Sanders (who appears on the electoral register in 1915 for 104 waterloo road with Alice Osborne) was living at and running a pub a few doors down at 108 Waterloo road in 1913 and 1914. I wonder if Florence may have been working there.

                            Sorry, another Percy has come into it now! Which one to follow first and see if there are any links.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have just had a look on the 1911 census and there only seems to be one Florence Mary Bateman that is aged 15 (so would match up with her being born around 1895). There are 2 records, but I think they are the same person, one with her family and one at her place of work as a servant.

                              Florence Mary Bateman - Servant at 3 Buckingham Road, Aylesbury, age 15 born in Marston Gate, Bucks
                              Florence Mary Bateman - Daughter at Wingrave, Aylesbury, age 15, house maid domestic, born in Long Marston, Herts

                              Slightly different birth places, but do you think they are the same person?

                              There is however a Florence Bateman (no middle name) who is age 16, living in london with her family and she is also a servant. Se has a sister who is called Alice ...... i did wonder if Alice Bateman married and became Alice Osborne..... but I cant see any records for a marriage.

                              There is also another Florence Bateman who is age 14, living in hemel hempstead with her family, also a Domestic servant general and she has a nephew living with her who is called Reginald Goodman. He is only 9 in 1911 ...... another possibility maybe?!

                              Any thoughts?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                It's quite common for people to be recorded twice, at work and at home. The slight difference in p.o.b. isn't significant, so I think they are the same person.
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks John, now i need to just try and narrow down the three i have to just one!

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                                  • #18
                                    As they were admitted to the workhouse, were there no other records of the Lambeth Board of Guardians that might help?
                                    Creed Registers can be quite detailed, I know in some places they give name and address of next of kin
                                    Probably Florence unlikely to feature in them, but LMA has 100 volumes of Rough Settlement examinations Lambeth 1835-1929
                                    John

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                                    • #19
                                      Well I have got a couple of records from the workhouse. The workhouse they went to was at Lambeth (Renfrew road, Lower Kennington Lane, S.E.)

                                      I have found Florence and Reginald on the Religious creed register (28th April 1914) all it says for Florence is:
                                      Age - 20
                                      Calling - General servant
                                      Admitted from - 104 Waterloo road
                                      Religious creed - church of england
                                      Name of informative - self
                                      By whom's order - (I cant quite read this one!!)
                                      Date of discharge - 2.5.14
                                      Remarks on discharge - O.Request 104 Waterloo road

                                      I have also found them both in the Admission and discharge book:

                                      Admission:
                                      Florence bateman
                                      When born - 1894
                                      Class for diet - 4
                                      By whose order - (Can't read it on this one either!!)

                                      Discharge:
                                      Own request
                                      104 waterloo road

                                      No sign of a next of kin though!!

                                      It says her birth year was 1894 - how accurate do you think this record was? Could it be + or - a year or 2?!

                                      Thanks again

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Its a pity about the creed register being no help because I've seen early 20th century ones for Bethnal Green and they did give next of kin there. Everywhere was different, I suppose.
                                        I don't think those ages on workouse admissions are always 100% accurate, but they are usually pretty near. If she was 19 or even nearly 19 she might have said 20, wouldn't have thought she would be likely to be much over 21.
                                        So from the birth indexes, exact Florence Mary Batemans of appx the right age, you've only got a couple of possibilities, neither in London in 1911
                                        The Florence from Nunhead in Camberwell, her birth would probably have been registered in Camberwell district and there were two around the same time, but their second names are Lilian and Emma.
                                        One thing that just slightly worries me, presuming she does have the two names, is Mary or May? Because I've written one for the other on countless occassions in the past, and I think even in your first post you did the same. So they might have done that on the workhouse records, even maybe on the birth certificate. Or perhaps even she could have preferrred Mary to May. The one from Hemel Hempstead was Florence May

                                        Don't want to add to your problem, but have also just noticed these births in the Irish civil registration indexes,
                                        Florence M Bateman Dec 1893 Dublin South
                                        Florence Mary Bateman Sep 1893 Naas
                                        Can't see either in Ireland in 1911, but one possibly may be in Kent
                                        So I think you are going to need some kind of proof from the time as to who she was

                                        John

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