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  • Deciphering old handwriting on documents

    I'm having trouble deciphering some words and names on old documents - partly due to stylised handwriting, and partly due to slightly less than perfect electronic copies. I wonder if anyone has enough experience to help please.

    I have tried to post gif copies of the relevant words in this post, but I couldn't get it to work - the forum help information suggests starting a forum album, but I couldn't follow the instructions, and when I post to Picasa, as I do on other forums, I couldn't get the graphic to load. If someone can clue me in please, I will post copies.

    But in the meantime, here are the problems with the letters as near as I can make them out:

    1. On a 1916 Scottish marriage entry, parents' names are listed. After two of them in brackets is "(dec)" which is obviously "deceased". But after another it appears to have "(four)" or "(ponr"). Does anyone know what this stood for?

    2. On an 1855 Scottish (Aberdeenshire) birth entry, I'm trying to identify three place names which look like:

    (i) "Carrig of Berry" or "Caiirg of Reny"
    (ii) "Kell of Brony" or "Hill of Brong"
    (iii) "Balnrioch"

    I have tried the Gazatteer for Scotland and found a few possibles, such as Carsaig for (i) and Balnorock for (iii), but all the other connections around this time are in Aberdeenshire, and these places are a long way from there.

    Is it possible anyone happens to have another suggestion please? Thanks.

  • #2
    Hi - is there anything in here that could help http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/co...aspx?r=554&406
    and http://www.urie.demon.co.uk/genuki/ABD/

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Naomi, that's very helpful. I am using the Scotland's people site to get the BMD information, but I wasn't aware of the other site. It gave me a couple of new ideas:

      The various branches of the family at this time seem most centred around Ballater & Banchory and I found on the second site a reference to a Balmenach farm near Ballater that is still there and has some known historic buildings or remains. So that could be (iii). And after viewing that site, (ii) may more likely be "Mill of .....". So that gives me a few more lines of enquiry (as the police say).

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      • #4
        Mysterious places and court findings about paternity

        Hi everyone, I'm still wondering if anyone else has any advice about the matters I raised in the opening post please. Essentially I'm trying to decipher words on hand-written documents. I've figured out how to post the images now (I hope), so here they are (plus a new one) in pictures:

        (1) I can see "Thomas Stephen Blacksmith" as the name of the father of the groom on a Scottish marriage document, but does anyone know what the letters in brackets are?



        (2) Then there are these three place names in Scotland - almost certainly Aberdeenshire:



        I'm thinking the second might be "Mill of ......" and the third may possibly be the name of a farm near Ballater, named "Balmenach", which is still there today.

        (3) And now there's this note on a birth document for a child that was "illegitimate":



        I can read "Paternity of child found by ..... of court - see ..... of ..... ..... Vol I p 229, September 5 1864" but I can't read the reference. Is anyone familiar enough with these things to say what the missing references are, and how I may be able to find them please?

        Thanks again for any possible help.

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        • #5
          HI
          I think the word in brackets for 1) is jour, short for journeyman meaning he had served his apprenticeship/was fully qualified.
          Moggie

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          • #6
            Hi
            Is the birth document for a child born in England/Wales or Scotland?
            Moggie

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            • #7
              Re the last one - I think it says "Reg of Cor Ent" - ie. Register of Corrected Entries. There's a bit about those here under the heading RCEs

              Jackie

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              • #8
                Hello, I see there is a comma after Stephens, so, I would suggest that it reads that Thomas Stephens was a journeyman Blacksmith. A journeymaan is a fully qualified man, self employed and paid by the day,

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                • #9
                  I agree with Pilgrim - I think his occupation was a blacksmith journeyman

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                    Hi
                    Is the birth document for a child born in England/Wales or Scotland?
                    Moggie
                    All documents are Scotland, and I think all are Aberdeenshire.

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                    • #11
                      For item 3, when you locate the birth on ScotlandsPeople, you should find a link to the Register of Corrected Entries. When you pay your pound for the image of the birth entry I think the RCE image comes free (but you may need to pay another pound for it). If it's anything like one I've got, the mother had to go before the court and say who the father was. The other main use of the RCE is to record inquest findings after an unexplained death.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for those who suggested "journeyman" - I think you are right. I knew the term and had seen it before, but never abbreviated like that (so I didn't recognise it) and I didn't know what it meant.

                        Originally posted by Night Owl View Post
                        Re the last one - I think it says "Reg of Cor Ent" - ie. Register of Corrected Entries. There's a bit about those here under the heading RCEs

                        http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/co...aspx?r=554&402
                        Originally posted by Uncle John View Post
                        For item 3, when you locate the birth on ScotlandsPeople, you should find a link to the Register of Corrected Entries. When you pay your pound for the image of the birth entry I think the RCE image comes free (but you may need to pay another pound for it). If it's anything like one I've got, the mother had to go before the court and say who the father was. The other main use of the RCE is to record inquest findings after an unexplained death.
                        Thanks too for these thoughts - they proved to be correct. There was a RCE button and it did lead to another document (costing 2 credits = 40p) giving the paternity of the child (not shown on the original birth documentation). So now I know that.

                        Thanks for all that help. Anyone recognise any of the place names (which are unfortunately a little faint as well as written unclearly)?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm glad the RCE threw some light on it. Have you got an approximate location for the place-names? You could take a stab at a spelling and try Googling.
                          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Uncle John View Post
                            I'm glad the RCE threw some light on it. Have you got an approximate location for the place-names? You could take a stab at a spelling and try Googling.
                            Everyone so far comes from Aberdeenshire or Kincardineshire, but I've looked on various listings of places in Scotland and Aberdeenshire and haven't been able to find anything except what I've said, namely:

                            1 looks like Carrig of Berry, but that doesn't lead me anywhere.
                            2 looks like Kell of Brony or Mill of Brony - ditto
                            3 looks like Balnrioch, but may be Balmenach - the only real place I've been able to discover that fits.

                            I thought it just might be possible that someone had come across a name that fitted. Thanks.

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                            • #15
                              Just for the record, someone sent me some information that identifies these places as small settlements (perhaps little more than a few farmhouses) near Ballater in Aberdeenshire:

                              Craig of Prony - a rocky hill near the small settlement of Prony on Glen Gairm.
                              Mill of Prony - the water mill on the stream at Prony - the house still seems to be there today.
                              Balnreich - a small farm settlement nearby and adjacent to the Dee (now spelt Balnareich).

                              Thanks for the help!

                              Comment

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