royal household relative

[congletonian]

I have James Reid born Ireland,and in 1851 census under employment it says "chamberlain's dept( or could be office) Buckingham Palace.He is age 53 and living with his wife and children at 30 Hannover Square.
In 1871 he is a widower and is "superannuater(?) royal household".What's puzzling me is;

1) what would his role in the royal household have been?

2)In 1861 census he is an upholsterer!!! He has the same wife and children or are there 2 Reid families with exactly the same names,ages,places of birth living in London?


Hoping someone might have suggestions

Liz

[moulie11]

I have a similar tale like that in my own family. One of my ancestors was the butler to Lord John Hay (the admiral of the fleet) in 1891 and by the time of the next census he was an innkeeper! Talk about a fall from grace, eh? I guess it sums up the uncertainty of life!

I would say go with your instinct; it sounds like it must be the same family in 1861.

moulie

[naomiatt]

Hi - would be worth an e mail to http://www.royal.gov.uk/TheRoyalHous.../Overview.aspx Lord Chamberlain's Dept
Supperanuater sounds like superannuation..

[congletonian]

Thanks Moulie and Naomi.Yes I've spent ages trying to see if there are 2 families with identical details and there just aren't so I'm assuming these are mine but that has to be the biggest change in occupation I've come across so far in 30 odd years of research! Also from Hannover square to Camden .The chamberlain's link is interesting,thanks for that Naomi.Yes I assume he had a pension from his royal household job?

James' daughter Jane Amelia Reid was the 3rd wife of my gt gt grandfather,Frederic Andrews of Binsted Hampshire.

Now I'm trying to find out who Henry Walter Wheeler,journalist and author,was;he was granted probate when Jane(Andrews by then) died in 1917. Anyone ever heard of him??? He also had probate for Jane's unmarried sister Eliza Matilda Reid who died in 1913.Jane had several step children including my gt grandfather so I was surprized one of them wasn't executor.

Liz

[naomiatt]

There are four Henry Walter Wheeler's in 1911..could any of them fit the bill for a location..
Hampstead, West Ham and Solihull...

[WendyP]

I've found this info in the 1901 english census

Henry Walter Wheeler bn circa 1852 St Pancras London
Mary Louisa Wheeler bn circa 1866 St Pancras London

in his household of staff there is an Alice F Reid bn circa 1883 Brixton - Does this person feature in your tree?

Henry W Wheeler appears to have married Mary Louisa Lynch in 1891 St Pancras.

Following Mary L Lynch back through the census it looks like her parents are

James Henry Lynch and Emma Lynch nee Reid they married in 1864 in Pancras.

So could Emma Reid bn circa 1840 be a sister to Jane Amelia and Eliza Matilda Reid? Therefore making Henry Walter Wheeler a family member through marriage.

[congletonian]

Oh thanks Naomi and Wendy,that's fantastic!!! Yes Emma Lynch nee Reid will be my Jane Reid's sister who was born about 1839.Another sister was Maria Louisa so Henry W Wheeler's wife would have been named after her I bet!?I found on 1891 census that Henry Wheeler was a visitor with the Lynch family including Mary Louisa.

So Henry Walter Wheeler had probate for his wife's 2 aunts,completely understandable now I've had all this help from the kind people on this forum!!!

Thank's so much for going to the trouble to find this out for me.

Liz

[naomiatt]

...and the Henry that WendyP found fits for year of birth with Henry Walter Wheeler living in Hampstead in 1911...

[margaretmarch]

I would guess that it's perfectly possible for an uphosterer to be a member of the Royal Household as they had tons of furniture that would need constant repair and refurbishment. I think the Chamberlains Dept may be the ones who were responsible for running the house so he would be in that section.

Some one who is superannuated is a pensioner receiving a pension from an employer or perhaps a private pension fund.
Margaret

[congletonian]

Yes Naomi
the Henry Walter Wheeler in Hampstead 1911 census must be mine.Unfortunately I don't have subscription to find my past so I don't know who else is living with him eg his widowed aunt Jane Amelia Andrews(nee Reid). When he died 3 years after Jane Amelia his address at death was the same as hers when she died in 1917. She was left fairly well off by her husband ,my gt gt grandfather so I thought she would have owned her own house. Maybe she left it to him and his wife,her niece. She was the 3rd wife of my gt gt grandfather whom she married in 1885 when she was 53. My gt gt grandfather died 8 years later and the family story goes that she got the lion's share of his money.Don't all families have such a story whether true or not??!!!

Thanks Margaret I did wonder if he was "just" an upholsterer in the royal household rather than anything more grand! On one of his daughter's marriage certs in 1864 his occupation is gentleman and no mention of upholsterer !

Liz

[margaretmarch]

Well, sounds like he was a very successful unholsterer if he gets to be a gentleman!
Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Liz,
Have a look at this page in the National Archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...fletID=232&j=1
Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Here's an extract from the NA info
Royal Household Servants
The responsibilities of the two household departments could be broadly divided between above stairs (Lord Chamberlain's) and below stairs (Lord Steward's). In 1854 the office of Lord Steward was abolished, and its functions were taken over by the Master of the Royal Household, whose records are not Public Records. The Royal Archives hold a comprehensive card index of persons employed in the Lord Chamberlain's and Lord Steward's departments. Enquiries should be addressed to the Royal Archives, Windsor Castle, Windsor, Berkshire, SL4 1NJ.
Margaret

[WendyP]

1911 - 10 Provest Rd Hampstead

Henry 59 Occ assistant Editor
Mary Louise 45 None
Mary Grace 17 Scholar
Ellen Josephine 11 Scholar
Caroline Plume 27 servant

[WendyP]

36 Graham road Worthing as seen in 1911

Jane Amelia Andrews 79 widow Occ Private Means
Eliza Matilda Reid 76 single sister """""""""""""""""

[congletonian]

Thanks Margaret,think it would be worthwhile enquiring if the royal archives have details of James.

Thanks Wendy for your look ups.

Liz