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Problem getting started, Grandfather missing.

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  • Problem getting started, Grandfather missing.

    No living relatives to ask on this so its down to detecting who is who.

    I have a copy from Jan 1933 of my late Father's Kent (b.1916 d.1968) birth record, but its got no mention of his Father on it, just the mothers name, occupation (domestic servant) and address.

    It would appear she didnt marry as I cant see her mentioned in bmd records either.

    I'm guessing she was born in the 1890's but several have the same names locally for that period.

    The area She was born and my father was a child in is around 40 miles from me, I wonder if local church records would be the way forward?

    As far as I can see I do need a definitive date of birth for the mother otherwise its guesswork on the tree before then.
    I would need to be very lucky indeed to stumble across a name for his father!

    Any tips on the way forward please.

  • #2
    Do you know when/where your grandmother died? If you can get her death certificate then hopefully (if whoever reported her death knew how old she was and didn't guess!) you can narrow down her birth year.
    Judith passed away in October 2018

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Oldman............I'm an old man too. Welcome to the Forum. If you would like to put some names, dates & places up, there are many willing helpers here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks both for your replies.

        As I said I have no detail at all on my fathers mother other than what is on the birth record for my father.

        Name: Albert George Turner b.2nd Dec 1916 d. 1968
        Mother's name: Nellie Turner (domestic servant) 6, North Farm road, Southboro
        Date of Registration: Jan 31 1917
        Registration district: Tonbridge
        Registration county: Kent
        Volume Number: 2a
        Page Number: 1347

        No mention of a father to the baby Albert at all, I wonder if Albert would have been farmed out to relatives due to her work? I have nothing on him for 30yrs until a Southborough address in 1946 from his Identity card after his demob.

        There are a few Nellie Turners locally to Southborough thats ages would fit with a 1916 childs birth.

        One born 1893 in Brenchley (house parlourmaid) at 3 Rusthall Common from 1911 census
        Also assume this is the same one in the 1901 census at 2 Auckland rd Tonbridge aged 8yrs with parents Robert and Esther who seems to change her name from Ellen!

        I'm thinking this is maybe a lost cause already.

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        • #5
          You could try to find the baptism record. It may record the father, although the ones I've looked for haven't. It may well have to go down in your tree as an 'unknown father' - I have some of those too!!

          Perhaps she named the baby after his father?? My great great grandmother named hers after her former employer!!

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          • #6
            Hi Oldman,
            Welcome to FTF, you say your father was demobbed & you have his ID card, have you thought of sending for his Army Records?
            Not promising anything but there could be more info on there.
            Vivienne passed away July 2013

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            • #7
              Hi Oldman
              If the Nellie Turner on the 1911 census at 3 Rusthall Common might be the father of Albert George Turner then I think it is more likely that she is the daughter of George and Fanny Turner.

              In 1901 George and Fanny Turner lived at Poplar Cottages in Rustall with their children. 2 of their daughters are called Emily and Nellie, they have the same birth dates as the Emily and Nellie Turner who are working at 3 Rusthall Common in 1911. In 1901 they are both listed as being born in Speldhurst which is very near Rusthall.

              In 1911 George and Fanny are at 39 Common View, Rusthall which would be very handy for babysitting duties!

              I know this doesn’t help with Albert’s father but it might explain where the name George came from so maybe Albert was his father’s name.

              My MiL was born and bred in Southborough so I’ll contact her and see if the name rings any bells.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Velma Dinkley View Post
                You could try to find the baptism record. It may record the father, although the ones I've looked for haven't. It may well have to go down in your tree as an 'unknown father' - I have some of those too!!

                Perhaps she named the baby after his father?? My great great grandmother named hers after her former employer!!
                I tried the local church at Brenchley and they have no records, so a block there.

                Originally posted by Vivienne View Post
                Hi Oldman,
                Welcome to FTF, you say your father was demobbed & you have his ID card, have you thought of sending for his Army Records?
                Not promising anything but there could be more info on there.
                Its his national ID card I have not his Army one but he was a POW for most of the war until demob anyway so I doubt he got up to much there ;)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Frazzled View Post
                  Hi Oldman
                  If the Nellie Turner on the 1911 census at 3 Rusthall Common might be the father of Albert George Turner then I think it is more likely that she is the daughter of George and Fanny Turner.

                  I know this doesn’t help with Albert’s father but it might explain where the name George came from so maybe Albert was his father’s name.

                  My MiL was born and bred in Southborough so I’ll contact her and see if the name rings any bells.
                  Thanks for the help, your trying to confuse me already with the typo in the first sentence though ;) Nellie cant be the father of Albert!

                  I too looked at George and Fanny as contenders for the tree and Georges brother is named Albert b 1858 Speldhurst.

                  Be interesting to hear if your MiL has memories of the family at all.

                  Thanks.

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                  • #10
                    Did your mother and father marry?? If they did have you got their marriage cert? If he was told who his father was in later life he may have put his name on the marriage cert - You never know!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If your father was a POW during the war did you know which camp he was in and when he was captured? My father in law was captured at Dunkirk so we have recently been investigating what information is around.

                      Did you know that when POWs were repatriated they were supposed to be interviewed or fill in a form about their experiences? All these forms are kept at The National Archives and are open for research. Unfortunately my FiL did not fill one in (I think a lot rebelled against it) but you might be lucky. Several of those we looked at had lots of details about the experience.

                      The other thing is - if he was a POW then he definitely did have a Service record. This should name next of kin - would that be his mother? Or perhaps he was already married to your mother? You can send for a WW11 Service record if you are next of kin now.

                      One more thing. Do you have your parents marriage certificate? Who did he say his father was on that? (or perhaps he left it blank :()

                      Anne

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Deb N View Post
                        Did your mother and father marry?? If they did have you got their marriage cert? If he was told who his father was in later life he may have put his name on the marriage cert - You never know!
                        Well yes he did put a name down on the 1950 marriage certificate "Peter George Turner (deceased)" but I think maybe he made that one up to fill the space. How fortunate would that have been for his unmarried mum to find a father with the same surname as hers.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Anne in Carlisle View Post
                          If your father was a POW during the war did you know which camp he was in and when he was captured? My father in law was captured at Dunkirk so we have recently been investigating what information is around.

                          Anne
                          I think I remember he was captured in Africa and was amongst those marched over the Italian Alps to Germany, he kept a diary in which he wrote in pencil very tiny so as to get lots on a page. Thats vanished now along with his war details.

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                          • #14
                            If you can visit TNA all you need is his name to get the right boxfull of files from repatriated prisoners. Its worth a look!

                            Anne

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                            • #15
                              Im thinking more on the lines of trying to find the actual family members before my Father, but thanks Anne for the pointer.

                              I have 2 current possibles for Nellie his mother. One born Speldhurst abt 1892 and maybe died 1976 Tonbridge.

                              The other Nellie was born Tonbridge wells est age at death 39yrs and died in 1936 Tonbridge which puts the birth year at 1897 instead of 1893. I wonder if they could be that far out with estimated birth date?

                              Should I buy both birth certificates? What pointers would that give me?

                              Until I can get a "dead cert" ;) on who was Alberts mother I am stuck with maybe's

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Oldman2 View Post
                                Thanks for the help, your trying to confuse me already with the typo in the first sentence though ;) Nellie cant be the father of Albert!

                                I too looked at George and Fanny as contenders for the tree and Georges brother is named Albert b 1858 Speldhurst.

                                Be interesting to hear if your MiL has memories of the family at all.

                                Thanks.
                                Sorry about typo, it was a long day!!!

                                Sadly my MiL doesn't remember any Turners in Southborough. She vaguely remembers someone called Turner who lived in High Brooms in the late 1950's but that of course could be anyone. Sorry couldn't help anymore.

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                                • #17
                                  Assuming you have also checked out Ellens and Helens?

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                                  • #18
                                    I would go for the army records if there are any as men had to give a next of kin which if it is a family member would be a starter.
                                    Other than that I guess all you can do is track the Nellie's you think are likely and see what you get from that.
                                    Margaret

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                                    • #19
                                      On the Historical Directories site they have
                                      Kelly's Directory of Tunbridge Wells, Southborough & Tonbridge, 1914
                                      Page 262
                                      Southborough
                                      North Farm Rd
                                      North Side
                                      6 Turner George

                                      perhaps as already suggested, Nellie's father?
                                      John

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                                      • #20
                                        JonnyB - That's a brilliant find. It must point atrongly to the Nellie found on the 1911 being the right one.
                                        Margaret

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