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I need help to find a way to trace my Great grand father

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  • I need help to find a way to trace my Great grand father

    I am trying to find a Samuel Winter - Winters born in England around 1835.
    The story goes he went to Ireland as a policeman met a irish girl and ran off to Australia.
    They had my grandfather in April 1865 in Sydney the mothers name was Cummings.
    Both my grand father and mother died off leaving my grand father Samuel Henry an orphan.
    Any information would be of great help.

    trueblue

  • #2
    You have a tricky quest there, according to the info you've given:
    1] you have no specific place in England for the birth
    2] the date is pre July 1837, when civil registration started, so there's no central index to consult.
    3] You've given no parents' names.

    Do you have Samuel senior's death certificate? I believe it should give you parents' name's which could help to narrow your search, and maybe other useful info, too.

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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    • #3
      hi Christine

      Thank you for your help.
      We assume Samuel senior died as there was not trace of him in NSW of a record of his death.
      It could be possible he went back to England or moved to another state or even a sailor.
      All we have on Samuel Henry Winters birth certificate was samuels name and that he was not present at the birth.
      His mothers name looked like Bridget Cummings born in Ireland she came to Australia on the red jacket sailing clipper.
      The only date on record is that of my grand fathers birth.

      Regards Michael

      Comment


      • #4
        There is a death in 1880 of a Jane Winters whose parents were Samuel and Briget Winters......maybe her death certificate could help you.

        I couldn't find any birth information for her though........still looking.

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        • #5
          Michael, did Samuel and Bridget marry or not?
          Elizabeth
          Research Interests:
          England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
          Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

          Comment


          • #6
            Aha!

            Name: Samuel Winter
            Gender: Male
            Baptism/Christening Date: 04 Sep 1797
            Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT MARY,NOTTINGHAM,NOTTINGHAM,ENGLAND
            Birth Date:
            Birthplace:
            Death Date:
            Name Note:
            Race:
            Father's Name: Samuel Winter
            Father's Birthplace:
            Father's Age:
            Mother's Name: Bridgett
            Mother's Birthplace:
            Mother's Age:
            Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04487-2
            System Origin: England-ODM
            Source Film Number: 503801
            Reference Number:
            Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

            What a coincidence! This is the Family Search Pilot site.
            Elizabeth
            Research Interests:
            England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
            Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

            Comment


            • #7
              There is also a death for a Bridget Winter in 1885 aged 41 in Sydney.

              Comment


              • #8
                It seems a huge coincidence that a Samuel Winter married a Bridget in 1797! I wonder if this is an ancestor or not?

                Bridget certainly isn't the most common name in England at that time - more associated with Ireland.
                Last edited by Elizabeth Herts; 17-08-10, 07:04.
                Elizabeth
                Research Interests:
                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                Comment


                • #9
                  good evening from Australia
                  thank you for your information i will trace back for jane death details.
                  On Samuel Henry Winters birth registration Bridget was 28 years old in 1865
                  I wonder if the Samuel name has been passed down over generations.

                  Regards

                  Michael
                  .2010-08-17-2138-22.jpg2010-08-17-2142-18.jpg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Elizabeth

                    I was told that they had married in Ireland before they traveled to Australia.
                    As Iam the youngest of my generation and all my fathers relatives have passed on.
                    I have only letters from an aunt to use as a guide.

                    Regards Michael

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Michael

                      As you say Samuel Winter(s) and his wife died and left Samuel Henry Winter(s) an orphan, this implies they died before he reached adulthood. So if he was born in 1865, one thinks they died before 1887.

                      8856/1881 WINTER SAMUEL SOPHIA GULGONG
                      66/1885 WINTER BRIDGET AGE 41 YEARS DIED SYDNEY

                      These are the most likely deaths, if they died in NSW. Have you looked at these death certs ? Do you think Samuel snr might have continued being a police man ? Gulgong was a gold-mining town that would have needed policing ! Maybe he was goldmining, along with a lot of others.

                      If he was a policeman in England, there may be some records for him, I seem to vaguely remember seeing something about them. Also he should be in the 1841 and even 1851 census.

                      Wikipedia says the Clipper "Red Jacket" was used on the Australian migration run from 1854 to 1861, as far as I can see, she made her voyages from Liverpool to Melbourne. Many Irish people left the UK from Liverpool. They could have come on a smaller ship from Melbourne to Sydney. You said you thought they had married in Ireland, which means they both came on the Red Jacket Clipper, or came out separately, or married after they arrived. Some more possibilities to look into ! If Bridget was 28 in 1865, that makes her born about 1837, which means they probably would not have married before 1855.

                      If Samuel was a policeman, could he have been an Army policeman ? If he was a policeman, he probably would have been at least 21 before he went to Ireland, so about 1856? And if they married before 1860, you would have thought that they had more children before Samuel Henry, possibly in Ireland or maybe Victoria ?

                      By working on the dates like this, you can probably get a narrower time frame.

                      Have you used the NSW State Records website ? or the National Library Newspapers ? These can be most useful. Also, if you have an Ancestry sub, or can afford one for a while, the NSW Sands Directories are online from 1861 - they could tell you where they lived.

                      Diane
                      Diane
                      Sydney Australia
                      Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you all for your help what a wonderful site.
                        I will look at the information you have given me.
                        When I do find that link i will let you know on the results.

                        Regards Michael

                        Comment

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