Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Advice for an Aussie searching in England please

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Advice for an Aussie searching in England please

    Hello everyone,

    I am researching my late mother's family tree, and have so far managed quite well using online (government) birth, death, marriage and grave records in Australia. But now I need some advice please, on two separate subjects, so I am starting a new thread for each (I hope this is the best way to do it).

    It turns out my Grandfather was born in the UK and came to Australia and married my grandmother in 1913. I have a copy of the marriage certificate, and it indicates he was 33 and born in Lincoln (which means about 1880) and names both his parents.

    My question is this please. Am I able to use online government records in the UK (specifically Lincoln) or will it be necessary to join Ancestry or the like? I just need some help to know how an Aussie should approach things in "the old Dart".

    Another question while I'm asking please. I am new to all this, and I use a Mac. Do any of you experienced hands have any recommendations on software to store and present this information (either free or purchase), or is this another reason to join Ancestry?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Hi Eric, welcome to Family Tree Forum.

    Re your English line - you really need to start searching the UK census which are available on both Findmypast and Ancestry, both subscription/pay per view sites. If he was born in 1880 then you might be lucky enough to find him on the 1881 census from the Family Search website, which is free to view.

    FMP & Ancestry also have passenger lists, so if you haven't found out when he travelled then they need looking at, although I believe some are available to view in Australia.

    Using the census and BMD certificates you should be able to work back through a couple more generations. There are also a number of parish register transcriptions which are being made available online quite a lot of which are free, but I'm not sure what is available for Lincolnshire.

    If you want to post up a few details then maybe we could help start you off.

    Re software. Personally I am against having the only copy of my tree on Ancestry - you are relying on a third party to keep your information safe. Far better to keep the data on your computer and upload to Ancestry/Tribal pages from time to time if you want to share the information with others. There are some Mac programs - have a look at the thread Getting Started: Software/Publishing in our Family Tree Software Forum - I believe the two most common are MacFamilyTree and Heredis but have no personal experience of either.
    Elaine







    Comment


    • #3
      would also like to add don't use safari on ancestry they do not work together
      wye surrey/london/birmingham
      lawrence/laurence berkshire/london/norfolk
      hall harrison cook/e pratt surrey
      ebbage maltby pratt norfolk
      herbert pratt yorkshire/hampshire
      armstrong/rickinson/harrison/beddington yorkshire

      Comment


      • #4
        FreeCEN does have some Lincs coverage for 1861 and 1891: http://www.freecen.org.uk/statistics.html

        If you're looking for parish marriages, there's a page where you can download Excel databases for 1837-1850 (in some cases extended now to 1870): http://s10.freefronthost.com/mi/

        The Hugh Wallis pages will make it easier to search the IGI for particular names in individual parishes: http://web.archive.org/web/200802052....htm#PageTitle

        I haven't looked, but I'd expect you'd be able to find some useful info and links on the Lincolnshire section of the FTF Wiki.

        I use a Mac. I used to use MacFamilyTree (a.k.a. MacStammbaum), but found it clunky and returned to using Excel, which I know well from work and play. I now have a set of conventions I use, and get on very comfortably with it. Unfortunately, it doesn't give all the nice reports etc (and sharing flexibility) that a proper GedCom package would do. I've got the impression recently that MacFamilyTree is now much more usable.

        It might be useful - if you find that the family was based in Lincolnshire - to join the Lincs FHS.

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          It might also be worth checking our GEDCOM database of names as there are quite a few Lincoln(shire) entries in amongst the names, a good few of them are mine too! Someone may already be looking at the same or adjoining branches of your family tree.
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you everyone for your replies. It seems there are a number of free online sources I can try - thanks for all the links and the suggestions. I will start working on them

            Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
            If you want to post up a few details then maybe we could help start you off.
            Thank you very much for your kind offer. I'm not expecting anyone to do my work for me, but I welcome any help I can get, so here are the brief details, obtained from my grandfather's death certificate (Sydney, 1939):

            Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
            Born Lincoln, England, 1881-2 (1939 - 57 years old = I think 1881).
            Parents: Francis Hargraves (weaver) & Mary McQuillan.

            Christine: I noticed the list in your signature block includes someone from Mevagissey. We have fond memories visiting there in 2000.
            Glen: I loved the Joseph Goulson quote in your signature - I guess that was on his grave?

            Thanks again.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm drawing a complete blank here - has anyone else tried?

              Ernest is easy to find in Australia - I've found his two marriages (one in Vic and one in NSW) and his divorce, his death and his entries in the electoral roll. Doesn't look as though he joined up in WW1.

              I can't see him on a passenger list going to Aus (although they aren't all online by any means). Do you know when he arrived? It should say on his death cert how long he'd been in the colony. That'd be useful so we know which UK censuses he should appear on.

              There's no birth registered for an Ernest with middle name McQuillan in England and Wales. There are three Ernest Hargraves born in Lincolnshire about the right time, but according to the censuses they have the wrong parents. So far I haven't found an Ernest Hargraves (or similar spellings) on the censuses with parents Francis and Mary. I checked for the birth of an Ernest with surname Mcquillan in case he was born out of wedlock, but I can't see anything obvious.

              No sign of a marriage for Francis and Mary either.

              Two or three people on Ancestry have him in their trees. Two say he was born in Holborn (London), but I can't find any evidence of that.

              What birthplace does it give on the marriage cert (which is likely to be more accurate than the death cert as he would have given the information himself)? Does the marriage cert give the same parents' names as the death cert? Was he a bachelor when he married Olive in 1913?

              This is where I've been looking for births:



              If you want to have a look at the censuses for yourself, you could take out a 14-day trial subscription to Ancestry. You have to give your credit card details, but if you cancel before the 14 days are up, you aren't charged. If you do decide to buy a subscription, make sure you get one that includes Australian records (you can get the prices from www.ancestry.com.au). You don't need the World subscription unless you also want US and Canadian records. Alternatively, you may be able to access Ancestry at your local library.

              You'll find lots of useful tips if you click on Starting Out on Your Research at the top of this page.
              Last edited by Mary from Italy; 14-08-10, 07:22.

              Comment


              • #8
                Like Mary, I am struggling to find anything in England.
                Elaine







                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                  Ernest is easy to find in Australia - I've found his two marriages (one in Vic and one in NSW) and his divorce, his death and his entries in the electoral roll. Doesn't look as though he joined up in WW1.
                  Wow, Mary, you're a fast worker!!! I have the two marriages and his death certificate, but not his divorce yet. (Do divorces appear in BDM databases?) Or the electoral roll (I hadn't even thought of that!). When married in 1913, he was a chef at the naval base at Jervis Bay in NSW, so I'm guessing that kept him out of the services in 1914, but he later left that job and moved to the country, so I guess he simply didn't volunteer - or was unfit.

                  I can't see him on a passenger list going to Aus (although they aren't all online by any means). Do you know when he arrived? It should say on his death cert how long he'd been in the colony.
                  The death certificate (Feb 1939) says 42 years = 1896/7, when he would have been about 15 or 16. In which case he may have come with his parents, so perhaps I should check out their possible deaths here (I had assumed I'd look for them in Lincoln).

                  There's no birth registered for an Ernest with middle name McQuillan in England and Wales. There are three Ernest Hargraves born in Lincolnshire about the right time, but according to the censuses they have the wrong parents. So far I haven't found an Ernest Hargraves (or similar spellings) on the censuses with parents Francis and Mary. I checked for the birth of an Ernest with surname Mcquillan in case he was born out of wedlock, but I can't see anything obvious.

                  No sign of a marriage for Francis and Mary either.
                  Seems to have been the case on the other side of the family too!

                  Two or three people on Ancestry have them in their trees. Two say he was born in Holborn (London), but I can't find any evidence of that.
                  This is extremely interesting, because my late mother told me he was born in UK, and she thought it was Holborn. But I trusted the certificates (see below). It is a strange coincidence - unless he had something to hide???.

                  What birthplace does it give on the marriage cert (which is likely to be more accurate than the death cert as he would have given the information himself)? Does the marriage cert give the same parents' names as the death cert? Was he a bachelor when he married Olive in 1913?
                  Marriage Cert & Death Cert say the same - Lincoln England, Francis Hargraves (weaver) and Mary McQuillan - perhaps one was taken from the other??? It says "bachelor", but he was 33 at the time, which is perhaps a little older than normal.

                  Thanks so much for all the trouble you've gone to, and the advice. I have a mystery or two, on both my grandfather's side and my grandmother's!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I also looked on freebmd but couldn't find anything. Given the surnames, I did wonder if there was an Irish connection?

                    Holborn and Lincoln are a good distance apart, lol - Lincoln's InnFields, perhaps?

                    OC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                      Two or three people on Ancestry have him in their trees. Two say he was born in Holborn (London), but I can't find any evidence of that.
                      I just realised, this probably includes me. When I first started to look at my family tree, I looked up Ancestry and had a bit of a fiddle around, to see if i wanted to take out a subscription. I set up a family tree chart with the limited information I had at that time, which included the Holborn birthplace I had obtained from my mother. But somehow now I can't get back into that chart to amend it, I don't know why - I get a relatives chart that I once looked at (???). So it is probably a red herring. (Sorry!)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello everyone,

                        I am still working on this matter, and now would like another piece of advice please.

                        Earlier on this thread I asked for advice about my grandfather, apparently born in Lincoln about 1881, and emigrating to Australia about 1899. No-one was able to find anything certain, and neither was I. But now I have been looking for his parents, which his death certificate states were "Francis Hargraves, weaver" and "Mary McQuillan". I have found a match for these names which is about the right age, but (1) located in Hebden, Yorkshire in the 1871, 1881 & 1891 censuses, (2) he is a "lead miner" and (3) no children are listed in the census, and certainly no Ernest.

                        But there are few Francis Hargraves-Mary McQuillan couples anywhere around this time so I am considering the possibilities:

                        (1) that perhaps Ernest moved to Lincoln prior to emigration, and so Lincoln rather than Hebden was put on his death certificate (after all, what would us colonials know about such distant places?);

                        (2) the identification of occupation may not be always very accurate or permanent, and

                        (3) one family tree I have found includes this couple and a child which the census has not included, so may not have included Ernest either.

                        So I need to ask some of you experienced people please, relating to these three points, whether your experience leads you to think I am grasping at straws, there could easily be other couples of these names that have not been recorded, and these problems with the identification make it very doubtful these are the people I am looking for? Or is the name identification a very strong evidence that should outweigh these negative thoughts?

                        And whether you have any suggestion on how to resolve this possible identification please?

                        I understand no-one can give me authoritative advice, but I am interested to hear if you have any gut feelings based on other research you have done. Thank you very much.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Eric
                          I use Ancestry free through my local library in Australia if I've got reasonable amount of details. I can then have a look at the relevant document and order it through the GRO if I want.
                          I also use the following free online software from Latter Day Saints' site for saving to my hard drive and then uploading if, as and when I am ready to forward it to someone or upload it to a genealogy for prosperity. I might even end up putting it on FamilySearch/Latter Day Saints' site as a lot of people look there and I am pretty sure it is free to do so.
                          Free PAF Family History Software

                          Personal Ancestral File (PAF) is a free genealogy and family history program. PAF allows you to quickly and easily collect, organize and share your family history and genealogy information.
                          Download PAF
                          hscott21c


                          Searching: Buxey, Taulbut, Brown/e & Jannaway - Hampshire.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wanted to revive this thread and seek some more advice please.

                            In my original post, I asked for advice on how to go about things. Many of you kindly offered to do some searching for me, and did so, but in the end the mystery remained. I have done some more work on it, and now would appreciate some further advice please.

                            To re-cap, my Grandfather, Ernest McQuillan Hargraves apparently emigrated to Australia in about 1899. His marriage and death certificates show he was born about 1879-1882 (slightly conflicting information) in Lincoln UK, parents: Francis Hargraves and Mary McQuillan. But neither I nor other have been able to definitively identify either him (birth or census records) nor his parents (birth, marriage, death or census records). I have been using Ancestry information, plus also TheGenealogist.co.uk plus yorkshirebmd.org.uk.

                            Because I can't find anything definitive, I have to consider the possibilities that (1) his birth wasn't registered, and/or (2) he was informally adopted or lived with another family other than his birth family (perhaps due to parental death or poverty), and/or that (3) Lincoln was not his correct birthplace, whether due to deliberate misinformation given by him in Australia, or through mis-spelling or mis-hearing information when giving information - one suggestion is that he might have come from Linton in Yorkshire where there was a couple with the names of his parents, though no record of him, but this location was mis-heard as Lincoln.

                            So here are my questions please:

                            1. Has anyone any suggestions of other sources of information I may find online that could assist me please, other than those I have mentioned above? Perhaps other immigration or shipping records, or parish baptism records? The surname Hargraves is most common in Lancashire and Yorkshire, so that is where I have been mostly looking. As an Aussie, I need advice please on how best to work from the antipodes.

                            2. When a person migrated from England to Australia, this change presented a great opportunity for them to "re-invent" themselves if they had something to hide. Identification, including passports, could be used to make this more difficult. Wikipedia says: "About 1855 passports became a standard document issued solely to British nationals. They were a simple single-sheet paper document, and by 1914 included a photograph of the holder."

                            Does anyone know if passports or other identification were used in practice during the period 1850 - WWI with sufficient rigour to make it difficult for someone to give a false name or birthplace when entering Australia?

                            Thanks for any advice please.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tinkerbe View Post
                              would also like to add don't use safari on ancestry they do not work together
                              Are you using Safari on a PC or a mac. I use it all the time at home on my mac with no problems at all with ancestry. I also have safari on my PC at work which I use as a backup if there is a security alert on explorer and I don't recall any problem there either.

                              Linda
                              LindaG

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                No firm advice, but I note that in 1851 there is a Francis b. Hebden who has a sister Jane who is a weaver. That seems quite a definite occupation to have 'conjured up' on a certicate, so I think it may be a good clue to tracking your Francis.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  there doesnt appear to be any under hargraves/greaves, so i looked under mcqu*, and found some, but not likely yours.

                                  1) ernest albert McQuellan, lambeth 1883
                                  2) ernest MCQUILLAN, barnsley, 1886
                                  3) ernest MCQUILLAN, chester le st, 1886

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    im inclined to think the parents didnt marry, or they are in fact his grandparents, he may be the son of a daughter .

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                      im inclined to think the parents didnt marry, or they are in fact his grandparents, he may be the son of a daughter .
                                      I guess that's possible, which would make things difficult. Thanks for the thought. Do you know anything about my passport question?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I don't think there was much strictness about passports in those days, and in any case, anybody could (and still can) change their name with no formalities whatever, unless it's for an illegal purpose.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X