maria butler (again) baptised Sutton near Croydon

[gloryer]

I have just found something interesting that I think may relate to my mysterious Maria BUTLER. On the IGI on familysearch (LDS) there is a Maria BUTLER listed as born 15 jan 1870 baptised 2 may 1884 sutton near croydon surrey father William BUTLER.
Would any of our members have access to those parish records to see what other details are givien.
Maria BUTLER was in the Metropolitan district school in 1881 census so this looks likely to be the closest link that I have to finding anything else about her.

[marymog]

hi

this birth was in the right area for woolwich

Name: Ann Maria Butler
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Greenwich
County: Greater London, Kent, London
Volume: 1d
Page: 763


mm

[gloryer]

yes I was wondering about this one as I now have a date for her birth from the baptism on igi. If I order that one but use the d.o.b. and fathers name as a checking point. However its still an expensive gamble with the certificates being £9 now.

[gloryer]

I suppose the question to ask now is if that Ann Maria Butler was around in 1871 census. I have checked the 1881 but cant be sure.

[Uncle John]

It would be interesting to find out the reason for semi-adult baptism at the age of 14, unless there's a date been mistranscribed. A lot could have happened to the family in that time, so the distance between the places of birth and baptism isn't so significant. But Greenwich is on the Thames and Sutton at that time would have been a little village in the middle of nowhere except for being a railway junction.

[JudithM]

It would be interesting to find out the reason for semi-adult baptism at the age of 14, unless there's a date been mistranscribed. A lot could have happened to the family in that time, so the distance between the places of birth and baptism isn't so significant. But Greenwich is on the Thames and Sutton at that time would have been a little village in the middle of nowhere except for being a railway junction.

UJ Gloryer said that Maria was at the Metropolitan district school. I take this to mean the South Metropolitan schools which were built in Sutton the early 1850s as a large Poor Law residential 'district' school belonging to the South Metropolitan Schools District. This institution catered for pauper children from several parishes in south-east London. My guess is that the school authority arranged for the baptism prior to finding her a work position, possibly "in service" as she had reached the age to leave the care of the school.
Incidentally the school site was to become Belmont workhouse, later a hospital for prisoners of war and finally a psychiatric hospital

[gloryer]

so I am now thinking that William BUtler her father is a red herring!!!
Charles and Maria are said to be illegitimate in the school register so I am inclined to believe that the school invented William Butler as her father so that she could be baptised and take up employment. But its interesting that they put a birthdate as well or would that just be another red herring?

[JudithM]

I see no problem with the school knowing Maria's birthdate presumably she was admitted to the school from the care of her mother who would have been able to give this info. I'm quite surprised if they have made up a father's name as illegitimacy was not a bar to baptism, and my illegitimate relatives never seemed to have problems finding employment, but perhaps they just wanted to give her the best chance.

[gloryer]

the annie maria butler b greenwich 1870 appears to be on 18881 census with her parents james and annie so I think i can eliminate her from my enquiries!!

[Sabeswick]

Maria Butler

Hi Gloryer, I am also interested in Maria Butler- not yours but the other one! She was my great grand-mother. I know quite a bit about her, but there are some mysteries that I thought you may be able to help me with- as your investigations seem to have thrown up quite a lot of info on her. I know that she was born to William Butler and Maria Pearce ( of Cornwall) in 1869 in Hampstead, and was living in a showman's caravan on the heath 1n 1871. She was meant to be quite a beauty! She married George Shurety in 1889, but was living back with her parents and daughter Sarah Shurety in 1891. She married my great grandfather George Ward in 1900. What I don't know is what happened to George Shurety. Can anyone help? Sally

[Edd]

Hi Sally, reading through your post has taken me a little by supprise. Maria Ward and George Ward are also my Great Grandparents. I have been slowly tracking down family tree info and my Fathers mother was I believe Sarah Surety born in 1889. Hope to communicate with you much more, Edd

[Christine in Herts]

Hello Edd

You may need to send Sally a PM to make she knows you've posted here. I'm away, and using Tapatalk (& still learning it) at the moment, so I can't check whether she's been around recently and is likely to find your message without direct action.

Christine

[Chrissie Smiff]

Sally came on site on 4th May, after Edd posted. So has hopefully contacted him.

[Edd]

Hi, yes Sally and I have made contact, we have started to review some of our shared family history.

All thanks to this fabulous site, we are now in contact from opposite sides of the globe.

Many thanks Edd

[Chrissie Smiff]

Always lovely to hear of happy outcomes Edd Thank you for telling us

[Darksecretz]

Hi, yes Sally and I have made contact, we have started to review some of our shared family history.

All thanks to this fabulous site, we are now in contact from opposite sides of the globe.

Many thanks Edd

that is wonderful news Edd!! :smilee: I do hope that you have lots of luck and if you get stuck you know where to come for help, we are always waiting and wanting to help others in their searches.

[gloryer]

well I am back to this old chestnut again!!!
I wonder how those 2 got on with my other maria butler!!!
I am still on the trail of the minutes of the meeting.
Still not found a birth for maria or on 1871 census so I am hoping that maybe when I go down to Kent I will be able to track down the minutes of the meeting. I really need to sort out the dates that I would need to look for. so much paper work to go through. I did have it all stored on computer but have lost data over the years when they crash. Would they actually be stored at the kent family history plac of would it be the main one in london?

[Darksecretz]

what info do you have about her Gloryer?

[Darksecretz]

presumably you have seen this?

1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...rhSource=60947
Source Citation
Class: RG10; Piece: 190; Folio: 22; Page: 35; GSU roll: 823311

[Darksecretz]

presumably you have seen this?

1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...rhSource=60947
Source Citation
Class: RG10; Piece: 190; Folio: 22; Page: 35; GSU roll: 823311

oops ignore me, that is the 'other one'