Mary Holden or Fletcher stepdaughter but how??? HELP!

[congletonian]

Hi
I've posted before about my gt grandmother Mary Holden(or is it Fletcher?) who is stepdaughter to Robinson Holden in the 1861 census for Bolton,Lancs and on that census her surname is Fletcher aged 6.There are also in the household a daughter Phoebe Holden aged 8, wife Mary Ann Holden aged 33 and son George Thomas Holden aged 1.

I wondered how my Mary could be stepdaughter in the middle of the marriage as it were and someone suggested Phoebe's mother Mary Ann nee Young may have died and my Mary's mother could be another Mary Ann so I sent for the birth certificate of George Thomas Holden to see his mother's nee name assuming it would be Fletcher.However it arrived today and blow me his mother was nee Young so obviously still Robinson's first wife and same mother as Phoebe's.So everyone/anyone how does my gt grandmother fit in??? I should add on the 1871 census Robinson has died and Mary is now Holden and daughter of the widow Mary Ann Holden.There is also another daughter Margaret aged 4 ,eight years younger than George,quite a big gap for those times as is the 5 year gap between Mary and George??

I have my gt grandmother's marriage certificate and on that she is Mary Holden daughter of Robinson Holden !!

Not quite sure how to take this research further so would be glad of any suggestions or is it just a dead end/brick wall !? Am I descended from the Holden clan or not ,my grandad,Mary's youngest son,certainly thought he was as did I !!

Liz

[margaretmarch]

Did you ever find a birth entry for Mary Holden/Fletcher? what is the ref for the 1871 census you have?
Margaret

[dopeyploppy]

the only thing that springs to mind is that mother had an affair and child not her husbands- and he forgave her and took her back.

[margaretmarch]

That sounds plausible but why give the child the name of the other man? surely in that scenario it would be normal to just have the child as one of the family with the same name as the others.
Margaret

[dopeyploppy]

they may have accepted her as one of the family but the enumerator may have known the truth and wrote it down or they could have had a row and when form filled in he said - its her child by Fletcher!

[congletonian]

Hi Margaret and Jayne
yes I sent for a birth cert for a Mary Fletcher dob 27/5/1855 at 134 Blackburn street little Bolton.mother Margaret Ann Fletcher nee Shorrock,father James Fletcher an Iron moulder.Only thing is how can I know if it's my Mary and why would she land up aged 6 with Robinson and Mary Ann?

1871 census ref is Lancashire.Halliwell district 9 page 32,21 Bailey street

I found the Mary Fletcher born 27/5/1855 in 1861 aged 6 living with her parents ,James and Margaret and siblings so she can't be mine!!

Liz

[Granny Lynne]

Liz

What about this entry for Mary Ann Holden?

Births Mar 1854
Holden Mary Ann Bolton 8c207

The one you mention above would not be quite 6 when the census was taken.

[margaretmarch]

Hi Liz,
A big puzzle, but that birth from Ganny Lynne looks good. Is it one you've tried before?
Margaret

[congletonian]

Hi Lynne and Margaret
no I haven't tried that birth before mainly because I assumed she was Mary Fletcher; Also the family and her marriage certificate and census returns all say she is just Mary and not Mary Ann. My mum's cousin had been doing some family history research too and lived much of her life in a house opposite her grandma,Mary Holden or Fletcher.Sadly my mum's cousin is now deceased so I can't ask more questions but I got the impression that she was close to her grandma.Mind you I don't think she'd come across the 1861 census return where Mary is Fletcher as I'm sure she would have mentioned it but then she was researching quite a few years ago in the days of having to go to record offices to find anything!!

Now I'm wondering if step daughter could mean a child of a relative who was "taken in" by Robinson and Mary Anne so I'll search for any Young/Fletcher connections in case Robinson's wife had a sister who died. Maybe I can avoid spending another £9.25 on a certificate which may not be the right one !!

Pity the surnames are Holden and Fletcher and in the Bolton area of Lancs,it's just like looking for a needle in a haystack !!

Liz

[margaretmarch]

Or maybe Robinson had a sister married to a Fletcher and it's their child? I think step daughter did not necessarily mean the same then as it does now and in fact could cover a multitude of relationships that could not easily be written on the census form. It could easily mean adopted/fostered daughter
Margaret

[congletonian]

that's what I wondered Margaret so now I need to track Robinson's and Mary Ann's siblings.From my notes it looks like I made a start on this some months ago because in1851 at Dean,Horwich I found a James and Ann Fletcher with 2 young daughters AND John and Thomas Young both brothers in law to James.In 1861 James and Ann now have 3 daughters and 2 sons and there is a 6 year gap between the 2 youngest children born 1854 and 1860.I've speculated that my Mary could be the child in between but there again maybe there were just stillbirths/miscarriages. There is a marriage for James Fletcher to Ann Young last 1/4 1845 at Bolton. I'll pursue this line of enquiry and see where it takes me!!

Liz

[Lindsay]

Have you tried looking for a baptism record? It might help one way or the other.

Remember too that the census records we see were copied out by the enumerator - perhaps he had a lapse in concentration and just wrote down the wrong name?

[Uncle John]

Have you tried looking for a baptism record? It might help one way or the other.

Especially if the vicar was a stickler for the truth of the parents' relationship.

[congletonian]

Yes I've looked for a baptism but so far without success at least on Lancashire online parish clerk. I could do with finding a vicar who held nothing back as you say uncle john!!! Back to searching,maybe try free parish reg if that's up and running yet ??

Liz