Why is there no burial date for him in the Church records?

[LorraineJ]

I am hoping that someone will be able to help me. Its for my great grandfather, Albert Smith who was born 1860 in Dorking, Surrey. My question concerns his burial, as it would appear the date he was buried for his first wife Nellie (real name Helen) died 1904 and child Lilias Helen 1939. His second wife Edith (1962) and daughter (1972) are buried in a grave a bit away from the grave with the three.

I am having difficulty in sorting out, which death is him in the death records. Sybil was born in 1911, therefore I was wondering, was he a civilian casualty in the 1914-1918 war and the funeral would have been done in a rush. He was an employer of around 10 men, therefore it is possible he may have had a war job, though by this point he was certainly too old to be conscripted. I find it a bit strange that Albert is the only death that has no date recorded on the headstone.

The church in question is St Mary and St Nicholas in Leatherhead.

Any help, constructive comments would be gratefully received.

[Anne in Carlisle]

Do you mean he is recorded on the headstone but no dates? Have you looked in the burial records for the church? Sorry, don't quite understand your first paragraph.

Anne

[LorraineJ]

Sorry, yes he is recorded on the headstone but with no date of burial, where there are dates for Nellie (my great grandmother), Lilias (my grandmother), Edith (stepgreatgrandmother) and Sybil (my great aunt).

Unfortunately, it isn't just a pop for me to have a look at the church burial records, especially as I am now disabled and the distance. I had wondered if the date is on the burial stone, but the transcriber omitted to put it in the on line record.

[Anne in Carlisle]

If the memorial inscription has been transcribed there should be a list deposited with the County Archive in question. You could try phoning or emailing them. It would be a quick job for them to check a known entry.

If there really is no date on the grave, they might look at the parish burial records for you. They might make a small charge for a search, though. alternatively you could ask if anyone is visiting that County Archive and would be willing to look for you.

Anne

[JudithM]

I'm guessing that you have your info from the online listing of Leatherhead burial records . Looking at the list it seems to show all the names which appear on an inscription but it could be that Albert is not buried there and his name is only there because the stone reads something like "In loving memory of Nellie Smith, died 1904, beloved wife of Albert Smith, also of their daughter Lilias......."

[Anne in Carlisle]

Yes, you have a good point there, Judith. Having done some of that sort of transcription I should have thought of that!

Anne

[LorraineJ]

If he isn't there, where else could he be and where and when did he die? I think its odd that both of his wives and his daughters are there, but not him. It could be you are right and he died elsewhere. I think I need to persuade my cousin who also dabbles in family history, that he needs to go and pay his respects to our grandmother and great grandparents, but it is a puzzle.

[Velma Dinkley]

I've been looking at the National Burial Index and whilst there are Albert Smiths buried in Surrey, none were born in 1860.

He would have been 54 when war broke out in 1914. The upper age for conscription was 40, although have you checked the Commonwealth War Graves Commission's website to see if he was a casualty?

[Velma Dinkley]

Are you able to narrow down a timescale of when he could have died, and then look on the death indexes on ancestry to find possibles. I know it's going to be difficult with a name like Smith though

Perhaps if he's an employer he will be listed in trade directories?

Try looking at www.historicaldirectories.org

[JudithM]

Hi Loraine I've just had another look at the website and Albert's dates ARE listed - with those of his second wife and daughter. Here's the whole listing
SECTION E
534 SMITH Albert
534 SMITH Lilias Helen b1895 d1939 44 03/09/1939
534 SMITH Nellie b1866 d1904 38 06/03/1904

554 SMITH Albert b1861 d1946 85 04/03/1946
554 SMITH Edith Susan b1877 d1962 85 05/01/1962
554 SMITH Sybil b1911 d1972 61 27/02/1972

[LorraineJ]

Thank you very much Judith, another pair of eyes and all that!