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Still so many unanswered questions about my new family name of neugewirtz.

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  • Still so many unanswered questions about my new family name of neugewirtz.

    Would love to find out what happened to my Grandfather Jacob Neugewirtz/Newman (b1902 Mile End Old London). Did he die in the forces or did he run off and remarry? Have ordered birth certificate. Message to Naomi, would love to hear any new info you may have

  • #2
    Hello ladyverney,

    Welcome to Family Tree Forum,

    For those reading this thread I have sent ladyverney here for help from the BBC board where the researchers have found census and BMDs to date but Naomi has some information for ladyverney that may help her find her roots in Poland/Austria.

    You can read the findings to date here in this link http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/F...thread=7640882 so we dont double check for stuff already found on the BBC site.

    Naomi says she knows of a marriage from this family, and also a change of religion too so will await input from Naomi.

    Edna

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    • #3
      Hi! Looking at some other info that you have, I think that your family came from Krakow/Cracow which is now Poland, but it was in Austria at one time. I'm not quite sure where you've got up to with Jacob..who did he marry and when? Perhaps you could update on here what you do know.
      Here's some info on the surname from Marriage Banns -
      NEUGEWIRTZ
      NEUGEWIRZ
      NEUGEWURTZ
      NEUGEWURZ
      Surname List - Extracted from Krakow Synagogue
      Marriage and Bann Registers http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/krakow_surname_list.htm
      "Following the Uprising, Kraków became part of the Austrian partition in a province of Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria".
      There is also this info for example http://www.sztetl.org.pl/en/article/...jec/5,history/ which tells of Natan Neugewirtz and his wife..they were killed in 1942, and this man in Montreal
      Rev D Neugerwirtz - http://www.archive.org/stream/histor...tuoft_djvu.txt and http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...jewish&f=false It sounds like he converted himself and then spread the word with the Jewish Mission - he was a Missionary from the London Society for promoting Christianity.
      Last edited by naomiatt; 24-07-10, 01:24.

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      • #4
        Hi Naomi. The marriage of Jacob is as follows kindly given on the BBC site (although I do have the marriage certificates already)Any way 2 brothers Jacob and Joseph Neugewirtz marry 2 sisters Edith Elizabeth and Hettie Marie Joel at a Synagogue in Mile End Road in 1932. Both couples had a son each, who are both still living. I know what happened to Joseph and Hettie. But it's my Grandfather Jacob, I know nothing about. Did he die when my father was young or did he remarry?
        1932 marriages:-

        Marriages Jun 1932 (>99%)
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Joel Edith E Neugewirtz Poplar 1c 713
        Joel Hettie M Newman Poplar 1c 713
        Joel Hettie M Neugewirtz Poplar 1c 713
        Neugewirtz Jacob Joel Poplar 1c 713
        Neugewirtz Joseph Joel Poplar 1c 713
        Newman Joseph Joel Poplar 1c 713

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        • #5
          Hi - this is in the LG - you may already have this -
          I, JOSEPH NEUGEWIRTZ of " Oakment " Lansdowne
          Road, West Ewell in the county of Surrey,
          a natural born British subject, hereby give notice
          that at the expiration of twenty-one days from the
          date of the publication hereof I intend to assume
          and use the surname of Newman in lieu of my present
          surname of Neuigewirtz.
          (258) J. NEUGEWIRTZ.
          Where did Jacob marry?

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          • #6
            You mentioned the forces...have you found him in the AJEX Roll of Honour?
            http://www.ajexroh.org.uk/record.php (Association of ex Jewish Servicemen and Women)

            Do you know where Edith is buried and when she passed away? Did she re-marry? Likewise, do you know where Joseph and Hettie are buried?

            When is the last time Jacob was heard of?

            Are you trying to go back in time as well?? e.g, these are in the UK Archives -
            HO 144/424/B26404 Nationality and Naturalisation: Neugewirtz, David John, from Austria. Resident in London. Certificate A10166 issued 31 March 1898. 1898
            HO 144/1278/240245 Nationality and Naturalisation: Neugewirtz, Herman, from Austria. Resident in London. Certificate 24109 issued 3 October 1913. 1913
            Last edited by naomiatt; 24-07-10, 01:47.

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            • #7
              Jacob and Joseph married - Mile End and Bow District Synagogue. Had found info on Joseph changing name but not on Jacob.

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              • #8
                Edith died 1982ish did not remarry(very bitter lady), not sure where buried but could possibly find out.
                Joseph and Hettie emmigrated out of the country along with son. So I know details about them, but not exactly where they are buried.
                Herman is Jacob and Joseph's father.

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                • #9
                  Well my father (b1934) says he died when he was 4. But my Mother heard his name mentioned during their early marriage, re the story going off with another women - 1960's/70's?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ladyverney View Post
                    Edith died 1982ish did not remarry(very bitter lady), not sure where buried but could possibly find out.
                    Joseph and Hettie emmigrated out of the country along with son. So I know details about them, but not exactly where they are buried.
                    Herman is Jacob and Joseph's father.
                    Here's some info on Mile End & Bow Synagogue -




                    I'm not sure how long they were apart for - could be that they are buried in the same Cemetery though. (If there was a Jewish burial etc I can help with the Hebrew on it)

                    Is there a chance that Jacob followed his brother and left the country as well? Was that after WW11??

                    Have you found him in the AJEX records?

                    Are you looking to go back in time with Herman?

                    Sorry about all the questions..trying to work out when and where Jacob was last heard of....

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ladyverney View Post
                      Well my father (b1934) says he died when he was 4. But my Mother heard his name mentioned during their early marriage, re the story going off with another women - 1960's/70's?
                      Oops..this came in as I was typing to you...was this in the UK or another country??
                      If he was in the services, he should be recorded with AJEX...

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        I couldn't see a Jack or Jacob Newman in here...you might want to double check...there are John's etc etc...
                        he well could have used a different first name for example..that's assuming he passed away whilst in the forces...if he actually passed away around 1938/9??..and actually enrolled..the years would be close..

                        I don't subscribe to read fully, but there could be something in the JC Archives...worth looking at all the names you have in connection to the N family....a clue may come from it as well...
                        Last edited by naomiatt; 24-07-10, 02:21.

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                        • #13
                          Another thing I've thought of...assuming he didn't pass away...as they married in a Synagogue, if either side wanted to re-marry, they had to not only divorce in the civil sense, but obtain a Jewish divorce as well..called a 'Get'....do you believe they divorced (at all)?
                          This explains more about a Get -


                          Also, looking at the other forum, Jacob and Joseph had siblings....have you looked in to them as well?
                          If he did survive, and not pass away as your father was told, then, in theory, there would have been stories passed down about it, even half siblings perhaps from another relationship. Jacob might have kept in contact with some of his own siblings and family as well.

                          What was his occupation at the time of marriage, and did he have a middle name or initial?
                          Have you looked in to the witnesses? If he did survive, and stayed in the UK, there are a number of Jack Newman's in the London Gazette. He wouldn't have necc' changed his name formally like his brother did..but then it makes you wonder why Joseph did and he didn't. Cost perhaps? Had left the country? Just didn't bother...I have quite a few who didn't change their name formally or who didn't naturalise if that was applic.

                          A Jacob Newman went from Plymouth to NY in 1934 as per http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passenge...chStart.action - there's lots of J Newman's though.
                          Last edited by naomiatt; 24-07-10, 09:17.

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                          • #14
                            Ladyverney - have sent you a couple of personal messages as the people might be living....

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                            • #15
                              My 2nd great grandfather was Jacob Neugewirtz, who was an Austrian subject. He was married to Anna (Unknown last name), who was also an Austrian subject. Their son, David John Neugewirtz/Newgewirtz (documents in both surnames) was born in Chulice, Crakow, Austria as recorded on David's UK Naturalization Record. Other records show David as Polish. (lots of changes to the borders) Some of David and Anna's children retained the surname Newgewirtz and some changed their surname to Bond. My grandfather, Reginald Gilbert changed his name to Bond due to antisemitism by his employer while employed with an insurance company in Montreal. His father, David John was an Anglican Minister and served in the UK and Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Converting Jews to Christianity was a major focus of his work.


                              If you search the names Neugewirtz or Newgewirtz on Wikitree, you will see that I have recently started building this branch of my family tree. I hope you will consider joining me in building the entire family tree. Kelly Shaul, Canada

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                              • #16
                                Welcome to the forum, Kshaul.

                                The original poster of this thread (ladyverney) hasn't logged into the forum for some time. Can I suggest you send her a private message - click on her username to the left of the first post to see the message option.
                                Providing her email address is still current then she will receive an email notification of your message.
                                Elaine







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