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View Full Version : Help needed with Burslem Staffordshire for John James Shufflebottom or Shufflebotham



LittleLila
17-07-10, 22:33
My great great grandfather, John James Shufflebottom, was born in Burslem Staffordshire, abt 1810. We have been told his parents were William and Ann, we do not know her maiden name. we have no confirmation, but have been told John was baptised in a church in Burslem in 1810, we have had no luck finding a record of his birth nor confirmation that William and Ann are indeed his parent as it seems that the name Shufflebottom or Shufflebotham were common in that area. We have been told that on the record of his arrival in Australia as a convict in 1829 that he was first sentenced to the "treadmill" then later for the offence of street robbery at the Derby Assizes which resulted in his transportation. He married Ellen nee Butler in 1841 and we have been helped with information about her, but would love to have more info on him, for example, confirmation of his date of birth, his parents names and maiden name of his mother, perhaps the reason he was sentenced to treadmill, some details of his street robbery offence, and are not sure if details like those are available anywhere, and we have no idea of where to look, can anybody point us in the direction of where we may find such information, we would appreciate any help given.

Mary from Italy
17-07-10, 23:08
There is a baptism on the IGI which seems to fit the bill:

JOHN SHUFFLEBOTTOM
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 JUL 1810 Burslem, Stafford, England

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM SHUFFLEBOTTOM
Mother: ANN


http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true

This is an extracted record, taken from the parish registers of St. John's parish church, Burslem, Staffordshire.

There may be a bit more information in the register, such as the parents' abode, but the mother's maiden name isn't usually given.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Burslem/index.html

Mary from Italy
17-07-10, 23:10
The same baptism has been transcribed by FreeReg, and shows the parents' abode as Tunstall, which is only a mile or two from Burslem:

http://freereg.rootsweb.com/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=6211535

Mary from Italy
17-07-10, 23:15
The criminal registers on Ancestry show that a John Shufflebotham was sentenced to transportation for life at Derbyshire Lent Assizes in 1829 for assault with intent to rob. There's no other information in the register.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1590&iid=31251_A006037-00110&fn=John&ln=Shufflebotham&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1267226

Can't see anything about the case in the local newspapers.

Mary from Italy
17-07-10, 23:37
The convict records on Ancestry show that he was convicted at Derby Assizes on 24/3/1829 and transported on 5/8/1829 to ASW (presumably a typo for NSW) on the Morley:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1180&iid=IMAUS1787C_114259-00528&fn=John&ln=Shufflebotham&st=d&ssrc=&pid=51535

The John Shufflebotham transported on the Morley is on the list of convict pardons in NSW in 1834-8 and 1842-5. I assume the first one was a ticket of leave, but it isn't specified.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=HO10Pardons&so=2&rank=0&gsfn=john&gsln=shufflebot*m&sx=&gs1co=1%2cAll+Countries&gs1pl=1%2c+&year=&yearend=&sbo=1&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&db=&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&o_iid=21417&o_lid=21417&offerid=0%3a21318%3a0

He's listed in the SAG NSW tickets of leave database, which shows his occupation as "groom", and indicates that he got his ticket of leave in 1837.

http://shops.ecorner.com/epages/sag.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/sag/Products/538809

His ticket of leave and pardon are also listed in the NSW State Archives database, which shows that he was granted a conditional pardon on 1/7/1841:

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchhits.aspx?table=Convict%20Index&id=65&frm=1&query=Surname:shuffle%;Firstname:john

You can order the ticket of leave and pardon from the State Archives; they aren't very expensive, but I don't know how much information they contain.

Unfortunately there's nothing in any of these documents to say where he came from or who his parents were. Do you have his mariage or death cert, and are his parents named?

Tasmania has put its convict records online, and they're very detailed, usually containing birthplace and parents' names, so I wonder if something similar is available at the NSW archives in Sydney, even if they're not online yet?

Mary from Italy
17-07-10, 23:48
I've just checked out his marriage on the NSW online index, and it gives his name as "Shufflebotham James or John". His wife is named as Emma Butler, and they were married at St Thomas (Co. Ayr), Port Macquarie.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?SessionID=22687256&event=marriages

The marriage cert hopefully specifies whether his name was actually James or John - or maybe one of them was an alias.

Mary from Italy
17-07-10, 23:59
By the way, you'll find a guide to Australian research here:

http://ftfmagazine.lewcock.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=238:research-guide-australia&catid=49:june-2009

and some more Australian resources here:

http://www.familytreeforum.com/content.php/434-Australia

For English research, this is a good starting point:

http://www.familytreeforum.com/content.php/58-Getting-Started

Mary from Italy
18-07-10, 00:25
Just found another convict record on Ancestry; a Jas. Shufflebottom, aged 28, transported on the Morley in 1829, is listed in the 1837 general muster. He was assigned to work for AC James in Port McQuarie (which matches the location given in the SAG database).

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=1185&path=New+South+Wales.General+muster+R-Y.1837.105

The only Shufflebotham (with any spelling) transported on the Morley in 1829 was John, so John and James are evidently the same person. If he was 28 in 1837, he would have been born about 1809.

Mary from Italy
18-07-10, 00:29
I see a James Shufflebottom aged 47 died in Armidale in 1857 - is that your man? If so, there was apparently an inquest:

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28631835?searchTerm=%22james+shufflebottom%22

Night Owl
18-07-10, 00:34
I've found 3 articles about the case in the Derby Mercury. He was convicted with John Hawley of feloniously assaulting John Webster. There's a description of the offence and a few other bits. His surname doesn't seem to come up on the searches for some reason. I've saved down the reports so if you would like them, could you PM me your email address please.

Mary from Italy
18-07-10, 01:11
Ah, well done - I missed those. I think John Hawley was transported on the same ship - I seem to remember seeing his name.

Mary from Italy
18-07-10, 01:22
I see one of the articles says John Shufflebotham was 18, which is a reasonably good fit with an 1810 baptism. Sturston, where the assault happened, is about 25 miles from Burslem, though.

LittleLila
18-07-10, 02:15
Thank you Mary from Italy and Nightowl. We do have a Marriage Certificate for John James Shufflebottom and Ellen nee Butler, but it is a copy from the Church Register, not an official one from BDS, and it shows him as TofL (ticket of leave) and her as Free. We recently were given informaiton, on this site, of the ship on which she came from England and were able to get (from a member of this forum but on another site) where to find the passenger list that showed she could read, yet on the marriage cert from the church she made her mark with an X as did John James. We are joined by many other members of the family, as John and Ellen had 10 children, and they all had big families, in searching for stuff, and lately we seem to be getting so much info since joining this site, courtesy of you kind people who are so willing to help and we thank you so much, we cant thank you enough and hope that one day we will be able to help other people, if we ever develop the skills and knowledge to do so. I will send a PM to Night Owl re the reports and articles about his conviction, thanks again.

Mary from Italy
18-07-10, 02:28
Lila, where did the information about John being born in Burslem come from?

Night Owl
18-07-10, 02:32
Hi

Newspaper articles now emailed :)

Mary from Italy
18-07-10, 02:56
More about John here (click on his name for full details):

http://www.derbyscourts.com/index/data/crim/1170.txt

It very helpfully confirms that he came from Staffordshire.

LittleLila
18-07-10, 20:15
Hullo to Mary from Italy and Night Owl in particular, you have helped us so much, and we then sent the info you gave us to other family members who are doing research on our common family tree, and they appreciated the help as well, then a cousin sent us a message that told us he was told by another family member, but has not been able to confirm it himself, that John James parents were William and Ann maiden name Keeling and seems he may have had a twin sister , Anne who died as a child ..If it is the correct John his parents are William Schufflebotham and Anne Keeling , who both originated in Stoke upon Trent ,( which is quite near Burslem apparently) and they married at Stoke 20 Aug 1794 ..he also said that there may have been 6 children to William and Anne, older 3 children bapt at Stoke and younger children bapt at Burslem daughters Angelica 1799 , Henry 1802 , Ann 1805-1805 ,(all Stoke) Ann 1810-1810 , John 1810 , Anne 1812.(all Burslem)
Are you able to tell us if this info is checkable, and where we should look for confirmation of things like this, details would be great, and if we can confirm this we would have the whole family, even though we may never know what happened to them after John James came to Australia for his long "holiday" at the govt expense, and started this family with his wife Ellen nee Butler that now fills about 350 x A4 pages as their 10 children each had families of 10 or more who each had families of about 10, then the later generations seemed to have 3 or 4 who have all had 3 or 4 and on the rare occasion 5, hence the large number enough to fill a showground (or a football stadium) if they ever got together.

LittleLila
19-07-10, 02:00
Lila, where did the information about John being born in Burslem come from?

I think because we were told by another family member, who had apparently also been told by a different family member that he was baptised in Burslem, we made an assumption that he was likely born in the village, we just wish that when family members give us info that they would tell us some authoratative source for the info. anything we get, like a image of a birth rego, or the sort of stuff you have given us, when we pass it on and there is a website that the info came from, we tell the other family members the source and give them the link, so they can check it for themselves, to avoid just hearsay evidence, but they dont all do the same to us, they give us stuff, but no source, and it is so frustrating, hence our queries on this site, we need help as we can find sources for lots of the stuff we are given and learned years ago not to just trust the info given must be correct because of who told us, enough waffle, the stuff we have got from you is first class, because you tell us where it came from and we can, in most cases go look at it ourselves, and that is really good.

Kate P
19-07-10, 15:40
.If it is the correct John his parents are William Schufflebotham and Anne Keeling , who both originated in Stoke upon Trent ,( which is quite near Burslem apparently)

For background info, the City of Stoke on Trent is a conurbation of six towns, one of which is Burslem, so Burslem is in fact in Stoke on Trent. And just to confuse matters a little, one of the other towns that make up the city is called Stoke upon Trent, usually just known as Stoke. To this day, each of the towns (Burslem, Tunstall, Hanley, Stoke, Fenton and Longton) retain a distinct identity and character. A fantastic site for information on the Six Towns is www.thepotteries.org - it's an amazing collection of information which gives an impressive account of the history and development of the area.

Mary from Italy
19-07-10, 21:59
I think because we were told by another family member, who had apparently also been told by a different family member that he was baptised in Burslem, we made an assumption that he was likely born in the village

Hmm, that's a pity. It would have been nice to have some definite information to connect him with Burslem. Unless it's given as his birthplace in his marriage or death cert, or some other reasonably reliable document, I suspect one of your family has just looked at the possible baptisms and marriages on the familysearch site (IGI) and picked the ones that looked most likely. That's a very risky procedure, firstly because a lot of the entries on that site are "submitted" entries (provided by members of the Mormon church, and not always reliable), and secondly because it doesn't contain all English baptisms by any means.

Do you have his death cert, and are his birthplace and parents' names given? I assume they aren't given in the marriage cert. Alternatively, his birthplace should be given on his children's birth certificates. This information probably won't appear on old church certificates, but it should appear in certificates of children born from 1856 onwards, when civil registration began.

The only one I can see who fits the bill is James, born in Armidale in 1856. Might be worth getting his birth cert to see if you can get some more concrete information. It'll cost about $18 from an authorised transcription agent.

LittleLila
20-07-10, 00:32
Hullo Mary from Italy.
a cousin of mine has the birth certificate, the reg number in the NSW BDM is as follows, but we knew there was no James born in 1856, so the cousin got a copy of the birth certificate with that number, and it is, as we thought, the birth certificate of Henry Stevens who later married Elizabeth Stevenson, and that is the branch of the family the the cousin who obtained the certificate is from, and our theory is that when they transcribed to put on the BDM they simply transposed the name of the father (John James, who often just was called James and sometime just John) to the column where the name of the child should be. We will now ask him to scan and send us a copy of that certificate to see the names given of the parents, but they should just have John James (in one form or another) and Ellen the mother, but not sure if they state place of birth of parents, but we will see and make another post when we get that certificate. Thanks for the advice, would love to clarify the details of parent of JJ Shufflebottom

2760/1856 SHUFFLEBOTTOM JAMES JAMES ELLEN ARMIDALE

LittleLila
21-07-10, 20:41
We havnt got the details yet from a cousin, but are now wondering if it is possible that there was a census done in those early days around the Burslem area, and perhaps we could find the family of william Shufflebottom and his wife Anne nee Keeling, and then identify the children of the family. That may be one way of being sure we have the correct family, Is anybody able to tell us, was a census done at about that time, and if so, can you please tell us how to find that census material. thanks, in anticipation

Mary from Italy
21-07-10, 21:29
The earliest surviving national census was in 1841, I'm afraid. There were some local censuses done earlier, but I'm not aware of anything for the Burslem area. If there had been one, it should have been mentioned on the Genuki page that I linked to upthread.

You can get details of the children of William and Ann from the familysearch (IGI) site (just put in William's full name as the father, and Ann's Christian name, and leave the child's Christian name and surname blank), but you really need some more definite information to link your family to them before going any further.

The marriage is also there; it's only a submitted entry, which isn't necessarily reliable, but it's a good sign that an exact date is given. However, it does need to be checked against the parish register to be sure. Even so, unless Ann's maiden name is shown on John's marriage or death cert, or in his convict records, you can't be sure that they're the correct parents.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true

Mary from Italy
21-07-10, 21:34
Just checked the Genuki page, and it does give population statistics for Burslem in 1801 and 1831 under the heading "census", although that doesn't necessarily mean that occupants' names have survived.

This site also refers to an 1811 census:

http://www.thepotteries.org/location/burslem/burslem.html#census

You could try e-mailing the record office for more information:

staffordshire.record.office@staffordshire.gov.uk

Mary from Italy
21-07-10, 21:56
The Staffs Record Office has put some of its indexes online, but I can't see anything that obviously refers to your family:

http://www.staffsnameindexes.org.uk/StartPage.aspx?

LittleLila
19-08-10, 23:58
Hullo to all those so helpful people on this site who have solved so many mysteries for us. We need some more help please. As part of our search to discover for sure if Jonah Wise, age 30, who arrived in Australia in 1850 with his wife Eliza and son Stephen aged 1 is actually a younger brother of John Wise, the father of Eunice Wise who married Charles Frederick Basing, a great great grandfather of mine, we tried to access the 1841 Census, was asked to pay, could not afford the fee so said no thanks, was offered a free trial of 25 points, got their email confirming, and went to the site and got a message to say we had already used our 25 points, tried it 3 times, never did get to see the 1841 census with Jonah. We wonder if there is a really free site to see that census, we just want to find Jonah on the same page with the rest of the Wise family in 1841 at Ellington Thorp, Ellington, Hungtingdonshire to see if Jonah is at the same place as the other Wise family members. We have a Jonah Wise as witness at the marriage of Eunice, and not sure if younger brother Jonah or possible younger brother of her father John Wise who was age 47 at 1841 census. Cany anyone tell me a free free site that I do not have to pay to view transcription or original pages.

Elaine ..Spain
20-08-10, 06:14
From Ancestry - 1841 census shows Jonah Wise, born c1821, living in Ellington, occupation Ag. Lab
In the same household is Sarah Lutton, aged 60, pauper and Thomas Cade age 2.
Ref: Class: HO107; Piece 450; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Ellington; County: Huntingdonshire; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 4; Page: 2; Line: 21

If you are looking for free sites for UK census information then try FreeCen (http://www.freecen.org.uk/). It is far from complete but you might just be lucky. Unfortunately the 1841 for Huntingdonshire has not been transcribed yet.

jackie.
13-02-12, 22:26
He is my great great grandfather but I have him born in Congelton Stafforshire

jackie.
13-02-12, 22:32
I have traced the family back to 1700 as he is my great great maybe great again grandfather.

LittleLila
14-02-12, 03:40
He is my great great grandfather but I have him born in Congelton Stafforshire

Hullo Jackie, who is it that is your great great grandfather born in Congleton, is it Shufflebottom or Wise, as we have been discussing both in this thread, if it is either and one of them is your g/g/ grandfather and maybe g/g/g grandfather, then you must be related to me, because John James Shufflebottom is my great great grandfather and my great grandmother was Eunice Wise or the Wise family being discussed, she was a daughter of John Wise. If you are related, then we are happy to share family info with you

jackie.
15-02-12, 16:28
Hullo Jackie, who is it that is your great great grandfather born in Congleton, is it Shufflebottom or Wise, as we have been discussing both in this thread, if it is either and one of them is your g/g/ grandfather and maybe g/g/g grandfather, then you must be related to me, because John James Shufflebottom is my great great grandfather and my great grandmother was Eunice Wise or the Wise family being discussed, she was a daughter of John Wise. If you are related, then we are happy to share family info with you


There are 3 John James born within 10 years in the same area. The John james who is related to me is the son of Hugh Shufflebottom and Annis Barker whom he married in 1855. She had two sons already, John Barker, William Barker and three sons of their own, Abert, Thomas and John James born around 1863. He moved to Wigan and married Nancy Diffley in 1890. There is a second John james who was hanged for murdering his wife in 1901 and there was a third who married Rebecca in Staffordshire and had a son called John James born 1889. the problem with tracking some of my ancesters is that the name James is a derivitive of John. My father is John James Cooper and is a direct decendant of the above John James. There is also a another John James born in 1853 who moved from Staffordshire to Leigh near Wigan. I have not traced his wife as I cant find a link between the two. I have not found a Eunice Wise as yet. I am from Wigan but moved to Blackpool 30 years ago. I am 61. This week I will look for any ancestors that moved abroad.

LittleLila
16-02-12, 03:18
There are 3 John James born within 10 years in the same area. The John james who is related to me is the son of Hugh Shufflebottom and Annis Barker whom he married in 1855. She had two sons already, John Barker, William Barker and three sons of their own, Abert, Thomas and John James born around 1863. He moved to Wigan and married Nancy Diffley in 1890. There is a second John james who was hanged for murdering his wife in 1901 and there was a third who married Rebecca in Staffordshire and had a son called John James born 1889. the problem with tracking some of my ancesters is that the name James is a derivitive of John. My father is John James Cooper and is a direct decendant of the above John James. There is also a another John James born in 1853 who moved from Staffordshire to Leigh near Wigan. I have not traced his wife as I cant find a link between the two. I have not found a Eunice Wise as yet. I am from Wigan but moved to Blackpool 30 years ago. I am 61. This week I will look for any ancestors that moved abroad.

Hullo Jackie. Your John Shufflebottom is obviously not related to our John James Shufflebottom, ours was born in either Burslem or Tunstall in Staffordshire in about 1810, his parents were William and Ann, and she was a local from Burslem, as we have details of her family in that area back to 1498, John James was baptised on 29th July 1810 in Burslem at the same time as his twin sister, we have a copy from the church records of their baptism, a photocopy of the actual register. Our John James was convicted at the Derby Assizes in April 1829 of attempted street robbery and sentenced to transportation for life, he arrived in Australia later that year, was pardoned in 1841, married the same year to Ellen nee Butler from Cork in Ireland and died of a stroke in 1857 in Armidale NSW, so it does not appear he is related to your family