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Smith - any chance of going further back?

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  • Smith - any chance of going further back?

    Hi looking to see if it is possible to go any further back with my own name of Smith.

    The furthest I have been able to get to is my great great great grandfather James Smith. It was easier with my other ancestors as they had the name Solomon Smith (2 generations with the same name) but with James it will probably be a needle in a haystack time.

    What I know of James is that he married a Hannah Clarke on 3/3/1845 in Wolverhampton, Stafford. His age was given as full age (doesn't help) and unfortunately his father was only listed as W Smith occupation gardener. I know that James was listed as a Boatman (this occupation runs in the family).

    I have James on the 1861 census in Tipton aged 40 with place of birth as Shenstone, Warwickshire and occupation boatman.

    In 1871 I have him in Darlaston, Staffordshire aged 50 with an occupation as Canal Boat Streerer and place of birth as Shenstone, Staffordshire.

    In 1881 I have him on board a Canal Grain Boat in Coventry Holy Trinity, Warwick aged 60, occupation boatman and place of birth as Sharnton, Warwick (looks like a poor transcription of Shenstone)

    No sign in 1891 - most likely dead by then and no sign in 1851 - 6 years after marrying Hannah or any sign in 1841 - the name Smith doesn't help of course

    Can anyone help with the earlier censuses and could anyone suggest how I might find his birth or parents names? I would put the birth around 1821 but purely a guess

    A long shot I know but any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

    Thanks

    Steven

  • #2
    I've checked the PRs for St John the Baptist, Shenstone, but there are no likely entries.

    I've also checked St. Michael's, Lichfield, and there are are two possible matches, but the dates and abode are a bit far out:

    James Smith, baptised 16/10/1814, father William Smith, gardener, mother Sarah, abode Greenhill.
    Greenhill is in Lichfield, about 4 miles from Shenstone.

    There's also a baptism, possibly for a child of the same couple (but no burial for the first child):
    James Smith, baptised 3/9/1815, father William Smith, labourer, mother Sarah, abode George Street (which is very near Greenhill).

    There are a couple of possible marriages for William and Sarah, but no occupation's given.

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    • #3
      There is actually a James Smith living at Greenhill in 1841, but he's a pedlar living in a lodging house, not born in county, so I think you can discount him.

      Not having any luck finding the family in 1851 so far.

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      • #4
        Thank you so much Mary for your help. The 1814 birth looks a good shout as initial of father I had ie W matches your search and occupation fits in

        Will have another look at the 1841 & 1851 censuses today but no luck so far

        Steven

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        • #5
          Some information from the 1861 might help so I have noted what I know from that

          In 1861 they were living at 2 Tipton Wharf and there was

          James age 40 - boatman - place of birth Shenstone
          Hannah age 40 - place of birth Wolverhampton
          Mary Ann age 15 - place of birth Wolverhampton
          Eliza age 12 - place of birth Wolverhampton
          James age 10 - place of birth Gailey

          Also as James and Hannah got married in 1845 in Wolverhampton you would think in 1851 they would be around the Wolverhampton area

          However my main objective is trying to get a little further back on the Smith line so thanks Mary for the very likely lead of William & Sarah

          Steven

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by stevie2006 View Post
            Also as James and Hannah got married in 1845 in Wolverhampton you would think in 1851 they would be around the Wolverhampton area
            Not necessarily - although James was born c. 1851 in Gailey, which is about the same distance from Wolverhampton and Lichfield (in the Penkridge reg. district I think, but I'm not sure), Thomas was born c. 1853 in Cheshire, so they could have been there already (unless James was born after the 1851 census). Anyway, they moved around an awful lot, as boatmen tended to do, so they could have been anywhere.

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            • #7
              Thanks Mary - can you get a copy of a birth record that far back - I think GRO can only get them after 1837.

              Is there anyway I could get an image of James' birth or baptism - how certain are you that it might be him. I think it looks very good as father name and occupation match

              Regards

              Steven

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              • #8
                There are specialist researchers for boaters (I've seen them mentioned in the Waterworld TV programmes).
                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by stevie2006 View Post
                  Thanks Mary - can you get a copy of a birth record that far back - I think GRO can only get them after 1837.
                  No, BMD registration only began in mid-1837.

                  Is there anyway I could get an image of James' birth or baptism
                  You could get a transcription of the baptism entry or a copy of the entry in the register, but I doubt whether there'll be any more information in the register than the details I gave you (which came from the St. Michael's CD). You could try e-mailing Lichfield Record Office to ask them to check it for you; they usually charge for research, but as you know the exact date of the entry, they may not.



                  how certain are you that it might be him. I think it looks very good as father name and occupation match
                  Bear in mind that James and William Smith are very common names, and Greenhill is a long way from Shenstone. I have found other Shenstone people being baptised at St. Michael's, but their abode was always given as Shenstone in the register.

                  I would also guess that the two entries I gave you relate to the same couple (as George Street is right next to Greenhill), and the first child was buried elsewhere.

                  I was hoping that James and William (and possibly Sarah) would have been together in Lichfield or Shenstone in 1841, so that we could identify them positively, but I haven't found any likely candidates so far.
                  Last edited by Mary from Italy; 17-07-10, 17:22.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wonder if a boatman would have been apprenticed in those days? Not sure where he would have served his apprenticeship, though.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                      I wonder if a boatman would have been apprenticed in those days? Not sure where he would have served his apprenticeship, though.
                      Very unlikely. It wasn't a skilled trade as far as I know. A lot of the tracing that's done these days is through the records of the carrying companies.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                      • #12
                        Thanks Mary and Uncle John. I did manage to find some of my ancestors who were apprentice watermen/boatmen etc

                        My great grandfather Solomon Smith was bound to an Emmanuel Smith at Brentford on 18/18/1912 and freed 13/8/1914 then served in WW1
                        My great great grandfather Solomon Smith was a lighterman/bargeman but no records found for him although I know he was a captain aboard a boat called the Mars at Cowley Lock in 1891
                        My great great great grandfather Ambrose Stokes was bound to a John Clark on 12/6/1866 and freed 13/8/1872
                        His father Samual Stokes was bound to a Henry Perry on 13/8/1829

                        However nothing found on James - the name is just too common I think

                        Steven

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                        • #13
                          There's a difference between Thames watermen, who had a formal apprenticeship, and canal boaters who just grew up and learned from their parents. When the company thought they could be trusted they were put in charge of a boat.
                          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                          • #14
                            Thanks looks like some where skilled watermen/lighterman on the Thames whilst others were more of canal boatmen

                            Seems like the end of the road for me for the Smiths

                            Steven

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