Cracking the dead rellies code

[JLB]

Hello everyone

I'm new to the forum ,but I've been a family history addict for some years now and wondered if I might share a recent breakthrough.
I've been searching for years for the family of 2xgt gf John Emery.He joined the Royal Navy as a boy in 1855, and gave his date of birth as 23/10 /1840 in Hastings Sussex. On his marriage cert in 1860 his father is listed as John a Solicitor.
I had found a double baptism in Hastings in 1843 For a John and a Mary Ann Emery to father John a policeman and mother Sarah, but there is no registation of their births and they don't appear in the 1841 census for Hastings, but would a PC in 1843 be likely to be a solicitor by 1860?
Well, after years of searching I've finally cracked it, but now I,m even more confused.I have now got his birth certifcate so I know it is the right family, but the John snr's occupation is still a mystery.
In a nutshell--------

John jnr was born 23/10 /1840 in Southwark London --------, father's occupation Labourer.
1841 Census Southwark ---------- father--Tailor
1843 John and Mary Ann's baptism Hastings--------father --PC
1846 Son Edward's baptism Chelsea -------father--Brewers Servant
1850 Son Henry's baptism chelsea--------father --Cabman
1851 Census Chelsea----------father --Brewer

Unfortunately I lose John snr after this but I would be amazed if he had become a Solicitor by 1860.Was John jnr trying to impress his new bride????

[margaretmarch]

Hello everyone

I'm new to the forum ,but I've been a family history addict for some years now and wondered if I might share a recent breakthrough.
I've been searching for years for the family of 2xgt gf John Emery.He joined the Royal Navy as a boy in 1855, and gave his date of birth as 23/10 /1840 in Hastings Sussex. On his marriage cert in 1860 his father is listed as John a Solicitor.
I had found a double baptism in Hastings in 1843 For a John and a Mary Ann Emery to father John a policeman and mother Sarah, but there is no registation of their births and they don't appear in the 1841 census for Hastings, but would a PC in 1843 be likely to be a solicitor by 1860?
Well, after years of searching I've finally cracked it, but now I,m even more confused.I have now got his birth certifcate so I know it is the right family, but the John snr's occupation is still a mystery.
In a nutshell--------

John jnr was born 23/10 /1840 in Southwark London --------, father's occupation Labourer.
1841 Census Southwark ---------- father--Tailor
1843 John and Mary Ann's baptism Hastings--------father --PC
1846 Son Edward's baptism Chelsea -------father--Brewers Servant
1850 Son Henry's baptism chelsea--------father --Cabman
1851 Census Chelsea----------father --Brewer

Unfortunately I lose John snr after this but I would be amazed if he had become a Solicitor by 1860.Was John jnr trying to impress his new bride????

Welcome to FTF. It won't be the first time someone has 'bigged up' their relatives when called to give information to an official and in front of others!
Are you sure the baptisms in Hastings are correct as it seems a bit odd to live in and around the centre of London but go out to the coast for a baptism, especially in those times when travel was very slow and/or expensive.
Margaret

[JLB]

Hi Margaret and thanks for the welcome.
The problem I have with John jnr "bigging up" his father is that his bride's father spent most of his life in and out of Dorchester Gaol where he is described as "Hatchet faced"! so lying to him could have been a bit dodgy lol
I'm pretty sure that the baptisms in Hastings are correct.In the 1851 census his mother is listed as coming from Sussex and Mary Ann is listed as born in Hastings .Luckily for me his parents married in Dec 1837 and I've traced his mother's birthplace to Ninfield which is only a few miles from Hastings and I can find no baptisms for them in London although they are both registered there.

Jan

[Mary from Italy]

The word "solicitor" wasn't a common way of describing a lawyer in those days: "attorney" would have been much more usual.

I wonder if he was some kind of salesman (soliciting business)?

[margaretmarch]

The word "solicitor" wasn't a common way of describing a lawyer in those days: "attorney" would have been much more usual.

I wonder if he was some kind of salesman (soliciting business)?

That sounds more likley given his other occupations and the fact that qualifying as a lawyer would cost a huge amount of money as well as the need for patronage to get a position in a firm.
Margaret

[JLB]

Thank you Ladies
I think you are probably right.Unfortunately there are so many puzzles surrounding this family between 1851 and 1881 that solving one small part of it feels like a major achievement but I'll keep on digging

jan

[JLB]

I am still having problems with this family ,so I would appreciate any thoughts please.

I discovered that youngest son Henry Thomas Emery died in Feb 1854 in Lower North Street Chelsea and in August that year a Sarah Emery age 42 had also died in Lower North st.I felt that this could be John snr's wife so I took a chance and ordered her death cert hoping that it would say wife or widow of John.Well it says that she died at 21 Lower North Street but wife of EDWARD Emery, a Keeper at Bedlam Hospital !!Informant was M ary Barry from Chelsea Workhouse.
So it must be the wrong person?
I searched for a possible Edward but could'nt find one, so I got the death cert for Henry Thomas and he also died at 21 Lower North Street listed as son of John labourer, informant Sarah Emery at the same address.

I have a few certs where some of the info has proved to be wrong but I don't know what to think about this one! and of course it still doesn,t help me find out what happened to John.


Jan

[Darksecretz]

I think that given the address' are the same that you have indeed man & wifes certs, perhaps the mary that gave the info didnt acutally know sarahs husbands name?

is 21 north st listed as a house? did they have children?

[Christine in Herts]

Was Mary married to an Edward? It's the sort of mistake people make - especially if the registrar just said "...Husband's name?"

Christine

[JLB]

Thanks for the replies
When their son Edward Charles was bapt in 1846 they were living at 18 Lower North Street but by the 1851 census they have moved around the corner to Queens Gardens.I looked up no21 Lower North Street in the census and it seems to be a house with several families living there.I also found Mary Barry at Chelsea Workhouse in 1851 where she is listed as a widow age 66 and occupation Nurse(ing?)
It is only because poor little Henry Thomas died 6months earlier that I feel it must be my Sarah but there is still that nagging doubt.

Jan

[Darksecretz]

ahh I got the wrong end of the stick, I thought you meant that Henry thomas was her husband, I see now that he was her son. I still think that they are part of the same family, and that Mary perhaps got the names muddled. I see that from the 1851 cens that there were other children do you know what happened to these?

[JLB]

My feeling is that It must have been Mary Barry getting Sarah's husband's name wrong,but then it begs the question of where was the rest of the family?
In 1861 John jnr ( my direct line) is in the Navy on HMS Trafalgar, but I "lose" him after 1864_______ That's another story!
Sarah Ann is possibly a servant in Kent
Mary Ann is a servant in Lamberhurst Sussex
Both sisters marry in the Medway area in1866 &1867 Father John is a Brewer and not listed as deceased.
I cannot find Edward Charles although Edward reappears in 1891 having apparently joined the army at some point and married in South Africa.
I cannot pinpoint John Emery snr after 1851 at all.

Jan

[tinkerbe]

edward charles army records are on find my past
cant tell you what is one there as dont have subcribtion now

[kylejustin]

edward charles emery joined the army on 31 oct 1859, age 14 at gosport. place of birth: knightsbridge, london. he was in the 86th foot. he was a baker at enlistment. very interesting details on his appearance. discharged in belfast. gave details of his marriage but i could not make out the place of marriage.

[Katarzyna]

Cape Town 6 Feb 1871
Harriet Elizabeth Mc ???for

Should be able to find him on 1861 census as he was "Home" 1859 - 1863

[JLB]

Many thanks for the replies.
I am intrigued about the "Very interesting details on his appearance" Can anyone elaborate please? Also when he was discharged?
I know that he married Harriett Elizabeth McGregor.

[Katarzyna]

I have saved the image. If you pm me your email addy I will send it to you.

[Katarzyna]

I think Kylejustin meant his height - 4'8" at age 14 when he enlisted. He also had a tatoo on his arm!

[JLB]

Thanks Kat

I have sent you a PM

Jan

[kylejustin]

yes 4'8' is tiny. my family is mostly 6 ft, have been for generations, so to see 4'8' is mind blowing haha