PDA

View Full Version : Robert Peel connection to Catlow family



quiffdo
14-07-10, 15:48
Hello all

There has been people on Ancestry, Rootsweb and other sites trying to make the connection of Sir Robert Peel to the Catlow family. Now my ancestors are the Catlow family from Colne Lancashire and it appears that this is the family in which he connects to.
I have come across this little bit of information whilst googling away
"Harvey Hoover, the father of our subject, was born in 1833, and received his education in the schools of Union township, Centre county. In early manhood he engaged in lumbering, but for some years he has followed agricultural pursuits. He married Miss Mary Catlow, a grandniece of Sir Robert Peel"

and also this
"Mr. Hoover's mother was a daughter of the late Richard Catlow, nephew of Sir Robert Peel"

If anybody can help locate the actual marriage or connection I would be very greatful;D

Danny

quiffdo
14-07-10, 15:51
It would appear my colour red message has not quite panned out properly for the first bit of information so it's easier to read.

Danny

quiffdo
14-07-10, 16:02
Im no sure if the Hoover family live in America or whether Robert Peel's sister (by the looks of it) married a Catlow in England.

Danny

Elaine ..Spain
14-07-10, 16:02
Sorted out the red bits in the first post Danny - hope I've highlighted the correct sections.

quiffdo
14-07-10, 16:04
Thank you very much Elaine, much appreciated.

Danny

Elaine ..Spain
14-07-10, 17:25
I presume you have the biography from where the above extracts have been taken - if not it's here
http://files.usgwarchives.net/pa/centre/bios/hoover-grant.txt
Appears to be a Pennsylvanian family.

It says that Mary Catlow's father was Richard, and I can see a Richard Catlow in the US 1850 census

Richard Catlow 51 - born England - occ Farmer
Mary Catlow 43 - born England
David Catlow 19 - born England
Mary Catlow 14
Sarah A Catlow 12
Martha Catlow 9
William R Catlow 7

living in Huston, Centre, Pennsylvania

... so I would imagine you need to look for a marriage in Pennsylvania, rather than England.

Elaine ..Spain
14-07-10, 17:29
The US 1860 census shows a Harvey Hoover born 1833, living in Union, Centre, Pennsylvania with wife Mary born 1836 and daughter Laura, born 1859.
If this is the right family then you are looking for a marriage probably somewhere between 1855-1860.

quiffdo
14-07-10, 17:30
Thank you very much Elaine, not quite sure how to go about searching for a marriage in Pennsylvania but I will give it ago and see what I can turn up.

Danny

JudithM
14-07-10, 17:33
"It says that Mary Catlow's father was Richard, and I can see a Richard Catlow in the US 1850 census

Richard Catlow 51 - born England - occ Farmer
Mary Catlow 43 - born England
David Catlow 19 - born England
Mary Catlow 14
Sarah A Catlow 12
Martha Catlow 9
William R Catlow 7

living in Huston, Centre, Pennsylvania

... so I would imagine you need to look for a marriage in Pennsylvania, rather than England."

But if Richard Catlow was Sir Robert's nephew, and was born in England then the Catlow/Peel marriage to prove the link would have taken place in England.

quiffdo
14-07-10, 17:36
I had a look at Sir Robert Peel's sisters marriages and by the looks of it not one of them married a Catlow so I was a bit stumped as to how Richard could have been his nephew unless of course I have not seen all Robert's siblings?

Danny

quiffdo
14-07-10, 17:39
I have just had another look and it states that Robert Peel was one of 11 and they only mention 9 so either 2 died young or 2 did not marry into influential families (Not worthy of mentioning)

Danny

JudithM
14-07-10, 17:41
There's a submitted entry on the IGI which has Richard Catlow marrying in Pennsylvania in 1822 (odd bearing in mind son David was born England according to the census) and born 1799 in Yorkshire. Trouble is there's nothing to show where the info came from and I can't see a likely extracted baptism entry for Richard.

Elaine ..Spain
14-07-10, 17:42
But if Richard Catlow was Sir Robert's nephew, and was born in England then the Catlow/Peel marriage to prove the link would have taken place in England.

Yep! The Pennsylvanian marriage isn't going to tell us anything!

quiffdo
14-07-10, 17:46
Its a bit of a pain, I thought perhaps that a Catlow/Peel marriage would be quite easy to locate as the names are not to common and not likely to many of them marrying each other.
There is a post on the net which suggests that someone has family papers and a letter from Sir Robert Peel stating that he himself was delving into the Catlow family research but I cannot find a way to get in touch with this person.

Danny

Elaine ..Spain
14-07-10, 17:47
There's a submitted entry on the IGI which has Richard Catlow marrying in Pennsylvania in 1822 (odd bearing in mind son David was born England according to the census) and born 1799 in Yorkshire. Trouble is there's nothing to show where the info came from and I can't see a likely extracted baptism entry for Richard.

I've rechecked that census and it does give David's place of birth as England - but there is a message on Ancestry message boards which tallies with the facts Judith has found.
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.catlow/43.44.46/mb.ashx

quiffdo
14-07-10, 17:49
I shall have a look at that now Elaine. Hopefully it will shed some light for me. Thank you both for the help. I just hope I can find the marriage and connect the two properly.

Danny

Elaine ..Spain
14-07-10, 17:50
another link which says that SIR ROBERT PEEL is Connected to this family--He is Related to Mary Smith Richard Catlow's Wife.
.. but Richard Catlow's wife was apparently Mary Crowell?
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.catlow/43.44.46.53.1/mb.ashx

quiffdo
14-07-10, 17:54
That is an unusual one, they seem not to realise the name Smith and Crowell are not quite the same. So Mary Smith/Crowell is Robert's niece which would make Richard his nephew in-law? That dosent seem correct if Robert Peel was interested in the Catlow family history and both Catlow and Pell came from England whereas Mary was born in PA.

Danny

marymog
15-07-10, 00:43
the siblings of RP

ELEANOR PEEL -
23 JUN 1794 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
ROBERT PEEL -
28 MAR 1788 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
JONATHAN PEEL -
OCT 1799 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
JONATHAN PEEL -
17 JAN 1800 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
LAWRENCE PEEL -
28 JUN 1801 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
MARY PEEL ******
11 AUG 1784 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
HARRIETT PEEL -
06 MAY 1803 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
JOHN PEEL -
21 JAN 1799 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
WILLIAM YATES PEEL -
14 OCT 1789 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England
ELIZABETH PEEL -
24 MAY 1786 Saint Mary, Bury, Lancashire, England

on several trees on Ancestry and the IGI, they have a George Catlow married to a Mary Peel, only the marriage was too soon for it to have been RPs sister

Groom's Name: George Cattow
Bride's Name: Mary Peel
Marriage Date: 21 Feb 1791
Marriage Place: Saint Mary,Bury,Lancashire,England
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973

George and Mary had a son Richard, according to the trees and submitted entry IGI

Richard Catlow
Birth:* 06 APR 1799** , Yorkshire, England
Death:* 01 FEB 1881**
Marriage:* 12 MAR 1822** <, , Pennsylvania>
Spouse:* Mary Crowell

So the only possible connection is if Mary Peel was the Aunt of RP, RPs father was also a Sir Robert Peel I believe. (1st Baronet)

mm

marymog
15-07-10, 00:54
Just looked up RPs father, he married an Elizabeth Hawarth

they didnt have any children called Mary, they had:

1.Edmund Peel
2.Lawrence Peel d. 1824
3.Anne Peel d. 1826
4.William Peel b. 1745, d. 1791
5.Sir Robert Peel, 1st Bt.+1 b. 25 Apr 1750, d. 3 May 1830
6.Jonathan Peel b. 1752, d. 3 Dec 1834
7.Joseph Peel b. 5 Sep 1765, d. 1821
8.Robert John Peel b. 1767, d. 2 Feb 1857

so it looks like The Mary Peel who married George Catlow, though in the right church wasnt related.

mm

quiffdo
15-07-10, 00:54
Thank you very much Mary, so Mary Peel may have been Sir Robert Peel's fathers sister?

Danny

quiffdo
15-07-10, 00:58
Ahhh so maybe the Catlow family may have just assumed that Sir Robert Peel was related to them because of the location? Although one of the sites states that Robert Peel wrote a letter to the Catlow's stateing that he was in the midst of researching his Catlow relations.

Danny

marymog
15-07-10, 01:18
Hi

this looks to me like alot of copying from on tree to another, without researching things. Look here

http://thepeerage.com/p5978.htm


cant find any related Marys, maybe the Robert who wrote the letter wasnt from the same family

mm

quiffdo
15-07-10, 01:24
Thank you for looking Mary, I only started the search today to either prove or disprove the Catlow families claim. My ancestors are also Catlow's and was curious if there was any truth in what they say.

Danny

marymog
15-07-10, 01:24
Do you have a link to the site that says about the letter???

mm

marymog
15-07-10, 01:36
I was just thinking, maybe Mary was a cousin, she was in the right place at the right time,right church and all, she could have been living in with the Peels before she got married, but im not sure what relation she would have been to RP, if that is the case.

mm

quiffdo
15-07-10, 01:43
I am trying to find it again, I just googled Peel/Catlow connection and it popped up on Ancestry boards. Will try and find it now.

Danny

quiffdo
15-07-10, 01:48
I have found it, I googled Robert Peel Catlow and on page 2 it brought up Peel message boards and this is the message - Nancy, Your Sir Robert Peel Connection is Through Mary Smith I think he's a cousin or something. He is mentioned several times throughout the genealogy I have been given by the family. There are also several correspondences I Have copies of from Sir Robert peel himself documenting his efforts to research our line of the catlows.

marymog
15-07-10, 02:03
Well that looks good enough, maybe she was a cousin. On the peerage site, they only documented the "Sirs" line, if one of the other siblings if the 1st baronet had a daughter mary, who married in Bury, then it could make sense. Though the only sure way would be to research the siblings of the 1st Baronet, and they would be in parish registers, because the only things on IGI are submitted from the Hoover family who are claiming the Peels.

mm

quiffdo
15-07-10, 02:07
To be honest Im not a fan of the Hoover family research. They claim that one of their lot Harvey Hoover is the brother to Herbert Hoover the American president but that is easily disproved.

Danny

marymog
15-07-10, 02:07
right im off to bed.... these things get out of proportion, one copies another, and on all the ancestry trees there is very little evidence of marriages and parish records, after a while these things live a life of their own.

the woman with the letter, is the only real proof, why dont you write her and ask to see the letter,

mm

quiffdo
15-07-10, 02:07
Cheers for the help Mary.

Danny

marymog
15-07-10, 02:10
its 3am, catch you tomorrow

mm

marymog
15-07-10, 11:26
Hi

I just checked the 1st Baronets siblings, he had 2 brothers who could have had children in 1770, they both married but didnt have any Marys in 1770.

The story of Robert Peel(1stB) is he went into partnership with his uncle, (mothers brother)(Haworth)who had a company in Bury called Haworth and Yates. He boarded with the Yateses, they had a daughter Ellen, who was a child, story goes he waited for her to become of age then they got married.(big dowry) so he was married in his mid 30s to a very young Yates girl.(born 1866)they had 1st child in 1884 when she was 18

What if when he was in his 20s he misbehaved??? there you would have a Mary of the right age, and he would be concerned about her. If he was living with a young family waiting for the daughter to grow up, to marry her money, then maybe he did have himself a lady friend tucked away in a back street. That is the only possibilty of a Mary Peel being related to the 1st Baronet.

mm

kris_baxter73
22-07-10, 07:25
Now my ancestors are the Catlow family from Colne Lancashire and it appears that this is the family in which he connects to.


Hi Danny, I can trace my family back to Jonathan Catlow of Colne (1777-1851) http://www.briercliffesociety.co.uk/paf/john_catlow/index3.htm#CATLOW

Do you see a family connection?

Regards, Kris
http://www.briercliffesociety.co.uk

pmackey
16-06-13, 13:50
Here is the golden nugget you have been chasing!

From the 'Bradford Observer' Thursday 04 May 1837 p8 (Death Notices):

"On the 20th ult., at Dewsbury, aged 68, Mary, relict of the late Mr. George Catlow, draper and grocer. She was niece to the late Hon. Mr Peel, and cousin to the present Sir Robert Peel." I found the Newspaper entry on FindMyPast.

George Catlow married Mary Peel in 1791.
Mary is almost certainly the daughter of Joseph Peel the son of Robert Peel who died in 1795. Joseph's brother Robert (Mary's uncle) is the 1st Baronet. Robert's son (Mary's cousin) is the 2nd Baronet and later Prime Minister. Family relations are described in Burkes, of which Vol 2 of the 1828 Fourth Edition can be found of Google Books. Refer to p289 (300).

Wills exist for the three Robert's and the one of Robert who died in 1830 (the 1st Baronet) show the immense family wealth of the Peels. I downloaded these from the UK Archives.

The Wills mention the Grimshaw link which leads us researchers to
http://www.grimshaworigin.org/EdmundGwPeel.htm

"Our" Joseph Peel is individual 41. There is his nephew Joseph shown as individual 58. These two have been sometimes confused by researchers as they died close together in 1820 and 1821 (not 1820 as shown on the web). I found death notices and burial records on FindMyPast, Assuming the research is correct on that website, it will take your Peel ancestry back many generations (to the 1400's) if you are descended from George.

I understand that letters exist between George's children. I would appreciate copies for the records of my family members. While I am not related, my sister married a Catlow descended from George's son John Peel? Catlow. There are multiple "Joseph Peel Catlows" in the lineage. Any other confirmation data around George Catlow, Mary Peel, Joseph Peel and George's children would be appreciated.

pmackey
16-06-13, 16:06
Here is the golden nugget you have been chasing!

George Catlow married Mary Peel in 1791.


The marriage record (from the Lancashire online Parish Clerks is:

Marriage: 21 Feb 1791 St Mary the Virgin, Bury, Lancashire, England
George Catlow - Callico Manufacturer, Parish of Blackburn
Mary Peel - Spinster, this parish
Witness: Robt. Peel; Geo. Sandeman
Married by Licence by: Henry Unsworth Minr.
Register: Marriages 1782 - 1792, Page 391, Entry 1313
Source: LDS Film 559158

The witness Robert Peel could be her grandfather, but is more likely her uncle, who became 1st Baronet in 1900.

The LAN OPC also shows the marriage of Joseph Peel to Martha Fowler and his children, including Mary, baptised at Oswaldtwisle & Eccleshill.

The entry for Mary (consistent with the death notice) is:

Baptism: 1 Apr 1770 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Mary Peell - Daughter of Joseph Peell & Martha
Abode: Eccleshill
Register: Baptisms 1759 - 1772, Page 87, Entry 19
Source: LDS Film 1278778

NicWhiteley
16-06-13, 20:15
Hello all

There has been people on Ancestry, Rootsweb and other sites trying to make the connection of Sir Robert Peel to the Catlow family. Now my ancestors are the Catlow family from Colne Lancashire and it appears that this is the family in which he connects to.
I have come across this little bit of information whilst googling away
"Harvey Hoover, the father of our subject, was born in 1833, and received his education in the schools of Union township, Centre county. In early manhood he engaged in lumbering, but for some years he has followed agricultural pursuits. He married Miss Mary Catlow, a grandniece of Sir Robert Peel"

and also this
"Mr. Hoover's mother was a daughter of the late Richard Catlow, nephew of Sir Robert Peel"

If anybody can help locate the actual marriage or connection I would be very greatful;D

Danny
Hi Danny, my step- dad was Michael John Catlow from Colne.....my half sister Donna is his natural daughter. I've just started her side of my family tree research, but i assume you may well be related. Would love to chat, Nic :)

pmackey
17-06-13, 04:22
The marriage record (from the Lancashire online Parish Clerks is:



The witness Robert Peel could be her grandfather, but is more likely her uncle, who became 1st Baronet in 1900.



Oops, I mistyped. It should, of course, be 1800.