Help please ....

[LeicestershireLass]

Please see post 25 for update

I trying to confirm whether or not the following family are related to one that I am currently researching.

The details were found on a website that includes gravestone monuments at Trimley St Martin, Suffolk ... whilst the deceaseds' names are given together with their relationship to each other, there are no clues as to their ages / when buried.

So, I'd appreciate it if there are any supersleuths out there who have a bit of time to spare and are able to find a bit more info about them via census (my Ancestry sub has expired!), bmd info etc.

This is the info from the gravestone;

Joseph Butler

Robert Bernard Gorham - son of Joseph Butler
(I've found his birth on FreeBMD = Q2 1893 Woodbridge, Suffolk but not found his death ... I'm hoping that 1901 and 1911 census will shed some light on his parents etc)

Stephen Gorham - father of Joseph Butler

Emma Gorham - mother of Joseph Butler

Thanks

[Elaine ..Spain]

so far ...

1901 census

Stephen Gorham 42 head
Emma Gorham 39
Alice Collina 18
Maud Gorham 11
Robert Gorham 7
Violet Gorham 4
Ethel Gorham 3

all born Timley St Martin

marriage from freeBMD
Marriages Dec 1889
Collins Emma
Gorham Stephen
Woodbridge 4a 1609

.. still trying to work out where Joseph Butler fits in!

[Elaine ..Spain]

From CWGC

GORHAM, ROBERT BERNARD
Rank: Stoker 1st Class
Royal Navy H.M.S. "Princess Irene."
Date of Death: 27/05/1915
Service No: K/9118
Additional information: Son of Stephen and Emma Gorham, of 2, Delun Villas, Mill Lane, Trimley, Ipswich.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 11.

[Elaine ..Spain]

I can't see how Joseph Butler can be the father of Robert Gorham.
Stephen and Emma Gorham are married by the time he was born, and I can trace Emma back as Emma Collins to the 1881 census where she is living at home with her parents.

.. unless of course I am looking at totally the wrong family!

[LeicestershireLass]

Hi Elaine ... thanks for your help with this

Just wondering if Emma was previously Butler and she married xx Collins prior to marrying Gorham ????

[LeicestershireLass]

From CWGC

GORHAM, ROBERT BERNARD
Rank: Stoker 1st Class
Royal Navy H.M.S. "Princess Irene."
Date of Death: 27/05/1915
Service No: K/9118
Additional information: Son of Stephen and Emma Gorham, of 2, Delun Villas, Mill Lane, Trimley, Ipswich.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 11.

That's interesting .......... and he's listed with family (aged 7) in 1901 although it's not unknown for grandchildren to be listed as children !!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Hi Elaine ... thanks for your help with this

Just wondering if Emma was previously Butler and she married xx Collins prior to marrying Gorham ????

I thought that but she is in the 1881 census as follows:

Barnabas Collins 62 - head
Hannah Collins 53 - wife
Henry Collins 22
Emma Collins 20 - daughter
Walter Collins 6
John Collins 3
Thomas Collins 1

.. and the same relationships confirmed on the 1871 census.

I just can't see a Butler connection!

[LeicestershireLass]

What about 1891 ? Presumably Alice Collins born c1883 is Emma's daughter ?

[Elaine ..Spain]

By 1891 she is married to Stephen Gorham (and she marries as Emma Collins - see post #2)

household
Stephen Gorham 33
Emma Gorham 30
John Collins 13
Thomas Collins 10
Alice Collins 8
Maude Gorham 1
Henry Collins 33
Walter Collins 27

[LeicestershireLass]

By 1891 she is married to Stephen Gorham (and she marries as Emma Collins - see post #2)

erm ... I seem to have misread the year for some reason I thought it was 1893, hence 1891 request !! Me thinks I need a t-break

[LeicestershireLass]

This is where I got the info from;

http://www.gravestonephotos.com/publ...am&grave=62798

I've requested a free copy of the monument to clarify if any more clues / info given on site is correct (that is if it is legible .. although now wondering how Robert Bernard Gorham is in this grave + is he also in CWGC plot or is the info from a memorial stone ?????

[Elaine ..Spain]

I would imagine it's a memorial to Robert Bernard Gorham - I'd be interested to know if the image gives any more clues.

[TrevorFranklin]

1911 census has Stephen and Emma with daughter Ethel. With them is a border called Walter Collins (b c1863)

Looked up on 1891 census and found something really interesting.

Stephen and Emma Gorham.
Children:
John COLLINS age 13
Thomas COLLINS age 10
Alice COLLINS age 8
Maud GORHAM age 1

With them is Henry Collins age 33 and Walter Collins age 27, both Brother-In-law to Stephen

[TrevorFranklin]

Wish my browser would automatically refresh when new posts added, it would have saved me repeating what Elaine had already found

[LeicestershireLass]

I would imagine it's a memorial to Robert Bernard Gorham - I'd be interested to know if the image gives any more clues.

me too! ... it's a shame there aren't any details about when buried etc

I've tried to find Joseph Butler's / Gorham's birth but no success

although it seems odd that such specific information as son of ..... father of .... mother of .... is included on the website as I can't imagine that someone would just make that up (.... or would they ???????)

[LeicestershireLass]

1911 census has Stephen and Emma with daughter Ethel. With them is a border called Walter Collins (b c1863)

Looked up on 1891 census and found something really interesting.

Stephen and Emma Gorham.
Children:
John COLLINS age 13
Thomas COLLINS age 10
Alice COLLINS age 8
Maud GORHAM age 1

With them is Henry Collins age 33 and Walter Collins age 27, both Brother-In-law to Stephen

Hi again Trevor .. thanks for joining the search ..

What is the relationship, please, of the above Collins children to Stephen and Emma in 1891

and to Emma in 1881 (Emma's children or siblings)? - just nipping over to FamilySearch to take a look at 1881 census

[TrevorFranklin]

John, Thomas and Alice are all step Children to Stephen Gorham

Looked on 1881
John (born c1878), who was Emma's son is with his grand parents Barnabus and Hannah, listed as grand child.

So all the 1871-1911 census hits are correct.

I really think that somehow you have a 'red herring' with this Butler.

I think Emma was a little 'free and easy'

[Elaine ..Spain]

... it's a shame there aren't any details about when buried etc

at a guess
Deaths Mar 1935
Gorham Emma age 73
Woodbridge 4a 1254

Stephen Gorham
1945 Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death 87
Deben Volume: 4a, Page: 1186
(after 1935 the Woodbridge registration district was moved to Deben)

[LeicestershireLass]

John, Thomas and Alice are all step Children to Stephen Gorham

Looked on 1881
John (born c1878), who was Emma's son is with his grand parents Barnabus and Hannah.

So all the 1871-1911 census hits are correct.

I really think that somehow you have a 'red herring' with this Butler.

I think Emma was a little 'free and easy'

I've just looked at 1881 census info on FamilySearch ... and at this point I have to agree with Elaine and you ... where does Joseph Butler fit into all of this ?

[Elaine ..Spain]

I think you need that image to see if it really says they are son/mother/father to Joseph Butler!