What a shame Ancestry charge so much for Certs !! they do digital copies

[Guest]

if only they charged the same as the GRO instead of £22.99 I would love to be able to get a digital copy


You’ll receive your certificate within 16 working days – six days if you choose Express Delivery. For even faster service, for a small additional fee we can email you a digital copy (which you can attach to your family tree without having to scan in the original) while you’re waiting for your certificate. Find out more here.

[Kit]

That sounds great but I agree I wouldn't pay that much for a cert.

[dahaniuk]

If they did digital certicates by instant download for the same price or less then the GRO I think they would be inundated.

These firms do not seem to realise the opportunity they should give it a months trial and I bet they would carry it on.

Jill

[john_harvey]

Here, here...This would be great !
Same price (but preferably less) and a quick digital copy, would make the GRO even more....why cant they see it ?
John

[Elaine ..Spain]

If they did digital certicates by instant download for the same price or less then the GRO I think they would be inundated.

It's never going to be the same price or less - they have got to make a profit some how!
They still have to order the certificate from the GRO at a cost of £9.25, just like you and me, before they can produce a digital copy to send to you.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I am surprised they can do this as I thought it was illegal to send a copy of a certificate ("publish") for any reason whatsoever, even if it's yours and you've paid for it. That's why the GRO do not send copies by email and why certs are not instantly availalbe on the internet. Scotland has different laws, so they can do it.

OC

[Guest]

I never realised that Elaine but of course your right, even so they could charge just a pound more for a digital copy and still make a profit and we would I am sure not mind paying that little extra for an instant copy.

[Elaine ..Spain]

But it wont be an instant copy Val. They still have to order the certificate from the GRO and unless they pay for express delivery (and pass this cost on to you) they will have to wait as long as we do to receive them.

[Blackberry]

I am surprised they can do this as I thought it was illegal to send a copy of a certificate ("publish") for any reason whatsoever, even if it's yours and you've paid for it. That's why the GRO do not send copies by email and why certs are not instantly availalbe on the internet. Scotland has different laws, so they can do it.

It is no longer a breach of Crown Copyright to reproduce BMD certs, subject to certain conditions.

Guidance - Copying of Birth, Death, Marriage and Civil Partnership Certificates
(Revised April 2009)

1. This guidance note sets out the arrangements for the reproduction of official birth, death, marriage and civil partnership certificates (’extracts’ in Scotland). Copyright in the layout of certificates is owned by the Crown. The Crown does not assert any rights of ownership in the contents of the forms.
Reproduction

2. You are authorised to reproduce the layout of the form in any format including on the web, in films and in print. This authorisation is subject to the following conditions:

* That you must not use reproductions of certificates to provide evidence of birth, death, marriage or civil partnership. Where a copy is required to provide evidence that an event was registered you must order an official certificate (’extract’ in Scotland) from a local registration office or General Register Office (listed below);
* That the material is not used to advertise or promote a particular product or service, or in a way which could imply endorsement by HM Government;
* That you comply with the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Human Rights Act 1998. This guidance does not authorise you to reproduce the contents of any certificate containing personal data about living individuals;
* That you reproduce the Royal Arms and any departmental logo only as an integral part of a certificate.

LINK

[Guest]

oops yes Elaine I was forgetting they would have to wait themselves ?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Blackberry

Thankyou for that, that's interesting and makes a nonsense of one of the reasons the DOVE project was pared down from the original intention of producing historic bmds online as they do in Scotland.

OC

[Tom Tom]

If someone wants to pay me £20 to order a cert for them, scan it in, email it and then post the paper cert to them I would be more than happy to do so! LOL

[Blackberry]

Yes, OC, and there would appear to be nothing standing in the way of the GRO's offering the option of emailing a scanned certificate at a reduced cost.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Blackberry

Other than the fact that the GRO appears to be incapable of finding a machine which will scan copies, lol - refer to the aborted Dove project again.

OC

[Guest]

you have a point there Blackberry maybe I'll ask them?

[Blackberry]

Other than the fact that the GRO appears to be incapable of finding a machine which will scan copies, lol - refer to the aborted Dove project again.

These'd do to be going on with though ..... see here

Q. How many records have been digitised so far?
Over 130 million records have been digitised, namely the birth records from 1837 to 1934 and the death records from 1837 to 1957; this is approximately half of the total number of GRO records of birth, marriage and death. These are the record types most requested by members of the public applying to GRO for copies of certificates, often for the purposes of family history research.

Q. What has happened to the records which have already been digitised?
The digitised records are now being used by GRO within its certificate production system

[Guy]

The little thing that stands in the way of the GRO offering a scanned copy of a certificate is the law.

The current law only allows certified copies to be issued by the GRO and local offices.

The point being missed is Ancestry like any member of the public are only limited by copyright law when it comes to distributing copies of certificates they have purchased.
As Blackberry stated the copyright on the Certificate forms been relaxed and it is now possible to copy the forms.
The data on the forms was never copyright which means the entire certificate may be copied as long as the licence conditions are followed.
Cheers
Guy

[Blackberry]

The current law only allows certified copies to be issued by the GRO and local offices.

Hello Guy - I've seen you refer before to the government attempting to change the law re certificates - is this the one? and if so, what went wrong?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Blackberry

My name's not Guy, lol, but the last attempt to change the law was a Private Member's Bill which did not receive enough support to mandate it.

The only people who desperately want the law changed are we genenalogists and there simply aren't enough of us to bring the required pressure to bear, unfortunately. (I think there may be some dodgy grammar in that sentence, sorry)

OC

[Guy]

I assume OC was referring to the 1999 Bill moved by Mr. Keith Darvill (then MP for Upminster) which I think got through to its second reading.

I was referring to legislation the government tried to force through using the Regulatory Reform Act.
In September 1999 the Registrar General published a consultation document “Registration : Modernising a Vital Service” which sought views on defining and modernising the civil registration service.
There were over 1000 replies to this consultation, some from genealogist like myself who had found out about it on a visit to Kew.

In 2002 a policy developed from those replies was framed in a White paper “Civil Registration Vital Change”.
Amongst the suggestions was – registration records relating to people over 100 years old will be fully open and available
It was also proposed that records would be accessed online and that certificates be eventually phased out.
It was also proposed that the birth certificate would be the first step of a “life record”
In which events throughout a person’s life would be linked forming a record from birth to death.

Unfortunately though it was recognised that the proposals required significant legislative change the government tried to short cut the due procedure by using the order making powers in the Regulatory Reform Act 2001.
Such a move was illegal as it shortcut the debate procedure. This resulted in the proposed legislation having to be dropped.
It was hoped for a while time would be found to re-introduce the legislation through the correct procedure in two parts in 2004/05 but the impetus was lost and that never happened.
Cheers
Guy

PS correction the proceedings carried on to July 2004 when the Regulatory Reform (Registration of Births and Deaths) Order 2004 was laid before Parliament.