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  • James Carney

    Some time ago I asked for help in trying to trace the bare knuckle fighter James
    (Jem) Carney born 1856 according to his boxing records. I received a tremendous
    response to this for which I thank very one who replied. I still cannot solve this problem. I now have a birth certificate showing him as born 20 Oct 1856 Birmingham. His father is shown as Michael CARNAY and his Mother Mary Roach.
    I also have what I believe is his death certificate showing he died 9 Sept 1941 in
    Islewoth UD aged 80 yrs which makes his DOB 1861?. He is shown as a retired
    commercial traveller (fancy goods). His son is shown in attendance. His address
    is 34 Rothesary Avenue, Tile Hill Lane, Coventry. I can't find this person anywhere
    and I am hoping someone who knows the Coventry area can help me trace him.
    Thank you in advance

  • #2
    1861 census
    What about this one - James Kerney

    RG9; Piece: 2147; Folio: 26; Page: 15

    What is Michael's occupation from the birth certificate?
    Elaine







    Comment


    • #3
      ... there are some Roch family members in that census as well.
      Elaine







      Comment


      • #4
        The two Roch men in the same household are described as 'brothers' but that must mean to Mary not James in view of the different surname.
        Margaret

        Comment


        • #5
          This could be the same family in 1871 - although Michael is calling himself Thomas

          RG10; Piece: 3114; Folio: 17; Page: 27;

          and then the same family in 1881 - head of household now listed as Michael

          RG11; Piece: 2993; Folio: 107; Page: 17;
          Elaine







          Comment


          • #6
            I see in the IGI that a Jacobus Carney was baptised in St Chads Roman Catholic Cathedral in Birmingham born 26 Oct 1853 , christened 6 Nov 1853 father Michaelis Craney mother Mariae Roach. Joacobus been the latin for James
            Mike in Droitwich

            My family tree is on
            http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

            Comment


            • #7
              I think this James died in 1954
              Mike in Droitwich

              My family tree is on
              http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

              Comment


              • #8
                There is a James Carney son of Michael & Mary born c.Mar 1861 in Barford St Birmingham in the 1861 census age 1 month
                Mike in Droitwich

                My family tree is on
                http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                  1861 census
                  What about this one - James Kerney

                  RG9; Piece: 2147; Folio: 26; Page: 15

                  What is Michael's occupation from the birth certificate?
                  Bricklayer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Back to the drawing board then, although it seems a bit of a coincidence with the Roch family at the same address.

                    What is the address on the birth certificate?
                    Are you sure you have the right birth certificate for James Carney?
                    Did James marry - if so do you have the marriage certificate - what is the father's occupation and who are the witnesses?
                    Elaine







                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you all for your replies I am greatly indebted to you for the time and trouble you are devoting to my
                      problem. What I am trying to establish is the life of James Carney the bare knuckle fighter. His boxing records show him as being born Nov 5 1856 died 8 Sept 1941.Another record shows Nov 5 1857 -11
                      Sept 1941. I thought he was married when I obtained the death c ert for James died 9 Sept 1941 showing he had a son James.I was hoping someone from Coventry may have kown him.These different dates make it all very confusing. I think he gave his age wrong when he first started boxing as he was to young.I have him on the 1901 census as a visitor at the home of George Chaloner a racehorse trainer. His DOB 1858. This was after he retired from boxing and became a bodyguard toa millionaire.
                      Thank you Elaine and to Mike Fisher I dont think he was born 1853 but 1861 is a posiability .Also thanks to Margaret. Have a good week
                      Harry

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you have got two records both giving his birthday as 5th November, I would be rather hesitant to go with the birth certificate you have got which is for 20th October.
                        Have you found him in the census pre 1901? Do his boxing records give any idea of dates/locations?
                        Elaine







                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi my Grandmother Winifred Hett always said Jem Carney was her uncle or great uncle. her Mother Mary Ann Carney was born Rugeley Staffordshire, very near Birmingham in 1852. Her parents were were John Carney 1789-1874 and Mary 1819 to 1897 who came to UK in 1850 from Ireland and ran boarding house for many years in Elmore lane , Rugeley. I have copy of newspaper article must me late 1930's on an interview with Jem. Maybe Mary Ann's father was brother to Jems father and they came over together from Ireland. Jem is spitting imiage of one of my nephews and my Dad was NZ boxing champ and in airforce and went to UK to fight in erly 1930's!
                          Carole withey , New Zealand

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                            If you have got two records both giving his birthday as 5th November, I would be rather hesitant to go with the birth certificate you have got which is for 20th October.
                            < snip >
                            I'd agree with that - it's much easier to claim a different year for your birthday than a different day. My grandfather was b 6 March 1887. He would change his age (YoB 1884, 1887, 1893, 1903) according to what was most helpful to his current plans, as far as I can tell, but he kept the same day on all the records I've seen.

                            Christine
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The latest news I have of James is he was due to attend a court case Tues 17 Oct 1905 Londion Middlesex. Wandsworth.
                              He was living then at Castletiau Gardens. Barnes
                              I don.t know what the result was.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by harry hough View Post
                                The latest news I have of James is he was due to attend a court case Tues 17 Oct 1905 Londion Middlesex. Wandsworth.
                                He was living then at Castletiau Gardens. Barnes
                                I don.t know what the result was.
                                I'm pretty sure it's Castlenau Gardens. It's just south of Hammersmith Bridge. I was in digs there in the early 1960s.
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There's a mention of him here:
                                  The Times, Friday, Jan 16, 1914; pg. 52; Issue 40422; col G
                                  Veteran Boxers At The Ring. Reception To Jack McAuliffe.

                                  It sounds as if there were some exhibition rounds between retired champions, such as Carney.

                                  Christine
                                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Good to see you back here Harry...did you make contact with keyreal, post above...that sounds like an interesting link....

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hello everyone and thank you for still showing an interest in my search for James.
                                      I am delighted you are all still around
                                      UNCLE JOHN, I am sure you must be right about the spelling of Castlenau as you say you lived there.I'm afraid my eyes are not very good (should have gone to Specsaves).
                                      CHRISTINE IN HERTS. Thank you for that info I will have a look at that if .
                                      I can find it.
                                      NAOMIATT. No I have not had contact with Keyreal. He seems to have disappeared.
                                      In the meantime I will keep looking for James /
                                      1) did he marry?
                                      2) The death certificate I sent for 8 Sept 1941 shows a retired fancy goods salesman.
                                      I can't see that being him

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        A newspaper report October 18, 1881 gives his address as Woodland Place, Wheeler Street, Birmingham. May be worth checking that address in the 1881 census. I haven't time to do it at the moment - dinner time!
                                        Phil
                                        historyhouse.co.uk
                                        Essex - family and local history.

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