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  • I am flummoxed- help needed please

    hello

    I am hoping that someone will be able to help me or at least point me in the right direction as i have hit a brick wall!
    John Clarney -
    He first appears on the census in 1851 in Hexham, Northumberland a tobacco pipe maker b 1832 Carlisle, Cumberland,
    He then marries in 1857 to Margaret Nicholson in Durham, but his name has changed to Mclaren, on the marriage cert his father is William Mclaren labourer.
    In 1861 and 1871 on the census he is still a Mclaren always consistent with being born Carlisle Cumberland, all his children are born as Mclaren's.
    Then in 1881 Still living in Framwellgate Durham he has changed back to being a John Clarney, and so have all his children (his wife died in 1869)
    He carries on being a Clarney and dies as a Clarney in 1909.
    His children are all born as Mclarens, but any that marry or die after 1871ish are Clarney's except my gg grandfather he lived his life as a Clarney but when he died he had reverted back to a Mclaren (1950)
    Clarney is the name that has carried on through the generations!
    I had heard that the name had originally been Mclaren by a past family member.

    Sorry that is a bit long winded but didn't want to leave out any vital info!

    I cannot find a birth record for a John Clarney or John Mclaren born about 1831/1832 Carlisle Cumberland, can anyone help please???

    Also why would he have changed his name back and forth, i could understand if they had moved area after each name change but he stayed in Durham?
    Any theories would be most welcome

    Cheers

  • #2
    Welcome to FTF, it certainly seems a mystery!!

    How do you know that this is the same person? If the name changed so dramatically I would need some other proof that it is the same man.
    Margaret

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    • #3
      I know it is the same man for a few reasons, he is a tobacco pipe maker always born carlisle, Cumberland - not that many of them around, and all the children match up perfectly - i have most of their birth and death certs and i already knew that our name was originally Mclaren and not Clarney, it was just a matter of which generation changed it!
      but it is just this chaps birth cannot find it!

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      • #4
        sorry, forgot to thank you for the welcome, so excited that someone has replied, got caught up in the moment!

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        • #5
          Hi Savannah - welcome.
          Do the witnesses on the marriage certificate help at all -? family members?
          Elaine







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          • #6
            hello - The witnesses were Robert Nicholson - who is her brother and a Margaret Thompson who i don't have a clue is.

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            • #7
              Welcome Savannah,

              I thought I recognised the names, good luck I hope you find what you want

              Edna

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              • #8
                lol Hi Edna, yes came across this site thought i would give it a try, I am no further back fingers crossed!

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                • #9
                  I would guess that John was not born in Cumberland but probably in Scotland as the name is prevalent there. Have you tried Scotlandspeople at all ?
                  I looked at the 1841 for anyone named McLaren in Cumberland and there isn't any so either he was born there and moved right away to Durham or not born there at all!
                  Margaret

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                  • #10
                    i think margaret's right. border activity was rife in the old days, it is quite easy to see he may have been born in scotland and left as a small child. if he says born carlisle, maybe you should look for mclaren's or clarney's buried there? specially if they arnt showing on the 1841 census, they may have died before then, and you have a few people to look up.

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                    • #11



                      Two websites that may come in handy in this case, the second one is a download of a PDF document and has hundreds of transcribed records for Cumbria, so it is well worth a search if you have Cumbrian links

                      Edna

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                      • #12
                        thank you all for you replies, i shall have a look at scotlands people, but have a feeling it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack, as i only have the names John Mclaren/Clarney and William Mclaren to go on!

                        Thank you Edna, i shall go and look at these sites and see if anything turns up!

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                        • #13
                          Hi Savannah,
                          It's a difficult one this one!
                          Clarney doesn't seem to have any links with Carlisle or Cumberland, but there was a family with the name Clowney in Carlisle 1820-50s, which seem to have originated in Ireland.
                          My feeling would be that even if John wasn't born there, he probably spent his early years in Carlisle, & was either illegitimate or orphaned. The McLaren could even be something as simple as his wife not liking the name Clarney......my great grandmother made my great grandfather revert to his birth surname after they married(as it sounded posher), despite the fact everyone knew him by a different surname & carried on using it!!
                          I presume you've tried looking for a likely candidate in the 41? I had a look for likely Johns in Cumberland, but there wasn't an obvious one.
                          William McLaren, the father on the marriage certificate could be a red herring, don't get hooked up on looking for him.

                          Something I do with Scottish, Cumbrian & North Eastern ancestors is to look at the naming pattern of the children. If you can elliminate Margaret Nicholson's family names from the children, you may be left with John's family names, also are there any second names for the children which might give a clue?

                          good luck,
                          ~ Louise ~

                          Researching Dalzell, Highmore & Sumpton in Cumbria, also Braidford & Chevalier

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                          • #14
                            Hi Meridan line, your comments are very interesting and is something else to think about!

                            I have looked at the children 1st born was Alice - named after mother's mother
                            2nd born was John Henry - possibly after himself?
                            3rd born was Margaret - named after herself
                            4th born was William - possibly after his father
                            5th born was Robert Nicholson - named after her brother

                            The mother died having the last child in 1869 and he never remarried brought the children up himself then when they married lived with one of his sons when they married and then moved in with the other (both daughters died 1883 & 1884) I have tried getting every cert i can looking for clues but no luck!

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