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1891 census

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  • 1891 census

    I'm trying to find the entry on Ancestry for Gertrude Therese Maria Penny b 1860 and her son Trum St Clair Augustine Penny b 1884, supposedly living in Tunbridge Wells at 16 Garden Road on the 1891 census. With those names you'd think it would be easy, but am having no luck. I'm trying to find if Trums father is with them - Thomas Penny.

    Can anyone help?

    Thanks

    Linda
    Linda


    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

  • #2
    1891 RG12; Piece: 679; Folio 75; Page 31


    Augustine Penny - with grandparents Alfred and Eliza Hemstead.
    Elaine







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    • #3
      Thank you Elaine - boy you are fast! Shame his parents aren't there - I'm really stumped on this one.

      Linda
      Linda


      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

      Comment


      • #4
        Do you know where Gertrude was born - and year and place of birth for Thomas?
        Elaine







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        • #5
          Gertrude was born in Maidstone, and Thomas in Southampton in 1865. I have a Thomas penny in my tree born in Southampton in 1865, parents Isaac and Eliza. He vanishes from home after the 1881 census. Trying to find him, I notice this entry on someones tree for Thomas Henry Augustine Penny, married to Gertrude, born in Southampton in 1865, so I am trying to see if this is my Thomas. The only entry I can find for Thomas Henry is in the Criminal Registers - he was jailed for 2 months for False pretences in 1886.

          Can you give me any ideas?

          Thanks

          Linda

          (Have to nip out for about half an hour - back soon)
          Last edited by ozgirl; 22-04-10, 14:00.
          Linda


          My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

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          • #6
            Not having much luck at the moment Linda.
            Elaine







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            • #7
              Thanks anyway Elaine - he's a slippery customer isn't he!

              Linda
              Linda


              My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

              Comment


              • #8
                He sure is!
                Elaine







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                • #9
                  Hi

                  TH s marriage is on BMD

                  marriage 1883 sep

                  mm

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                  • #10
                    Found Trums Army records, He was still at 16 Garden Road. with his grandmother Eliza, Uncle William, and his mother was Mrs Penny.
                    After the war his address was 19 barton St, West Kensington (from medal card) He was already in the Army in 1911(census) He joined up in 1903. was a Roman Catholic.

                    you probably know all this though

                    mm

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                    • #11
                      Thanks marymog - I had found his army record, he was using the name Augustine instead of Trum - though not much of a choice there was it! - but can't find his Mum Mrs Penny on the 1911. I hadn't fully checked the BMD tho - I see there are 2 Thomas Pennys married in Sep 1883 - one in Sherborne. My family of Penny's had gone to wiltshire sometime between 1881 and 1891. Sherborne isn't a million miles away so I'll have look at the other Thomas.

                      Thanks again

                      Linda
                      Linda


                      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        this is it

                        Name: Thomas Henry A Penny
                        1883
                        Jul-Aug-Sep
                        District: Tonbridge
                        County: Kent, Sussex
                        Volume: 2a
                        Page: 1016

                        other on page

                        Gertrude Therese M Hemstead

                        mm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Linda,

                          Are you still trying to find Thomas Penny?. I think I've found what happened to him after his conviction for false pretences in Jan 1886.

                          This is going to be a long story so I suggest you make yourself a nice cup of coffee and sit back and read this:

                          At the end of Jan this year I received an Ancestry.com message from a lady called Janette in Australia regarding my wife's 1st cousin 2x rem Hannah Devis b.1887 Dudley, Staffordshire. Now she being a distant relative I hadn't paid much attention to her after she disappeared from the census records in 1901. Well it turns out she emigrated alone to Australia in 1909. In 1916 she married a man called Gordon Rowe. In 1917 she had a little girl named Dora Devis Rowe. It appears that Gordon Rowe promptly deserted Hannah and she was left to fend for herself. Dora is Janette's Mother who is still alive aged 95yrs. Following Gordon's disappearance Dora was put into care where she was treated badly. Eventually Hannah found the where with all to get Dora back. Hannah divorced Gordon in 1919 for desertion. Dora knows absolutely nothing about her Father except he was supposedly an Optician and his name was Gordon or Cecil Gordon Rowe born 1880 in Southampton. Hannah had told her that he was a shady character but apart from that she knows nothing about him. Janette was desperate to find out who he was in order to tell her Mother before it was too late. Being an accommodating chap I took it upon myself to help. Since the initial contact it has become a quest which has literally taken over my life.

                          Now by now you must be wondering what the hell this has to do with your Thomas Penny. Well to put it in a nutshell I believe Gordon Rowe and Thomas Penny are one and the same man. When I started my research I did all the normal stuff, checking Birth, Deaths, Marriages and Censuses in Southampton and then in the entire UK and found absolutely nothing. Desperate to find something I Googled him and found an entry for a Gordon Rowe along with a long list of other aliases in the 1916 New South Wales Police Gazette. Eventually this led me to the 1927 "NSW Gaol Entrance" record for Cecil Gordon Rowe along with a number of aliases one of which was Penny. On this record it said that he had arrived in Australia aboard "The Beecroft" in 1886. It also gave his birth date as 27/09/1865 in England. I checked the "unassisted passenger list for Victoria" and found a Thomas Penny who arrived in Melbourne aboard "The Beecroft" in 1886. I've made this sound quite straight forward but believe me I've spent many hours to get to this point. So you can imagine how excited I was to find Thomas Henry Augustine Penny who seemed to fit the bill. At this point it would probably be best if you looked at my trees on Ancestry.

                          Here are two links: http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/377...id=19135579719 & http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/37306495/family

                          I don't know whether you have a current subscription to Ancestry.com but if not (and if your happy to do so) let me have your email address and I'll share them with you.

                          When you look at Cecil Gordon Rowe in my tree I can assure you, you will be absolutely astonished. This chap was the biggest Con Man since Frank Abagnale Jr. He appears to have had at least two bigamous marriages, numerous convictions for false pretences, impersonating a Baronet and a Doctor. All in all he spent 40yrs of his life in Jail and was proclaimed by the Police as "one of the oldest and most astute criminals in the territory".

                          By the way Gertrude Hemstead also seems to have disappeared after the birth of her Son Trum, I wonder if she left with Thomas Penny and possibly died on the voyage to Australia.

                          You may think that this is all sounds a bit tenuous but I can assure you that after hours/days/weeks of meticulous research I'm as sure as I can be that these two are one and the same man. The "clincher" for me by the way was that one of his aliases was Thomas Hamstead Penny which is as near as damn it Gertrude's maiden name.

                          I hope I haven't taken up too much of your time but I just had to share this reprobate's history with someone.

                          Geoff
                          Last edited by Laughinsam; 12-03-12, 12:53.

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                          • #14
                            Hi Geoff, thanks so much for your reply. I had to re-read what I had written, to remind myself about him, as it's been some time since my last posting. What you have found is fascinating - I had found a death for Thomas Penny in Cheltenham, Victoria in 1952, which seems to match up, but none of the other information. I have Ancestry access, so will have a read through all your info, and get back to you again. I am related to Thomas's mother, Eliza Leach, she was my gggaunt.

                            Off for a good read now!
                            Linda


                            My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ooher Linda have you seen this??

                              Name: Gertrude M A R Hemsley
                              Birth Date: abt 1864
                              Date of registration: Apr-May-Jun 1937
                              Age at Death: 73
                              Registration district: Weston-super-Mare
                              Inferred County: Somerset
                              Volume: 5c
                              Page: 453

                              she is in the probate index as well, but for some reason I can't access it!!!

                              Last edited by Darksecretz; 12-03-12, 14:19.
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

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                              • #16
                                now I can't access normal stuff on ancestry.. what gives?? grrr
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  That one I posted isnt your Gert Linda, have just accessed the probate and her MN was Reeves.. back to sq 1!!
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment

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